| Archive for SLMC Second Life® Music Community Forum |
| keith |
Anyone using Mainstage in SL?Hoping to start making some music in SL soon, trying to organize my backing tracks with live vocals & guitar stuff. Wonder how you guys handle this? Right now I'm using Logic with a Motu 828mkii, currently tinkering with the trial version of Nicecast.Anyone using Mainstage? I found an article that has you assign backing tracks to notes in the EXS sampler, then you load that into Mainstage so you can trigger the tracks and have access to your patches. So far I've only been able to create a drum trigger that will launch the first song at C1...and won't shut it off, far as I can tell. Trying to figure out the efficient way to perform so I don't have to load up each song. |
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| Norris Shepherd |
I don't use tracks, so I'm sure more qualified people will chime in. However, I'm all about getting rid of as many variables as possible, so I would probably just have a mixed version of the track (minus singing, guitar and/or whatever) as a wav or mp3 and play along to that.
Unless you do more DJ type stuff and plan on using MIDI live, triggering loops, matching beats, and all kinds of stuff i can't comprehend. lol. In that case I really have no opinion. |
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| RayW |
I'm on Norris' track 
I only have 3 backing tracks. They are all in the same directory. So, it's open, click, load and go. Doesn't usually take that long. And, that also gives you time to work the audience. So, it doesn't have to be dead time. Listen to most people who use backing tracks and you can tell they need to search, sometimes. I'd say Nad is one of the pros on that, though. He' susually right there with the next song. |
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| keith |
Yeah, I'd like to minimize the variables. The biggest one right now is that I use a handful of different vocal effects, each one a different channel strip in Logic. Mainstage should let me load all of them into one "concert", but I haven't gotten there yet.
Right now I'm trying to load all my backing tracks into Logic's EXS sampler and assign each one to a note on my keyboard, but so far I can only trigger them on the screen's piano...pressing controller notes does nothing. |
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| Silas Scarborough |
No way of sending patches to devices from GarageBand but it's one hell of a lot easier to use for live.
For all the stuff you're talking about running, I hope you've got some major compute power (i.e. desktop machines) to drive it. Being unrealistic about machine capacity has broken a lot of musical hearts in SL. |
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| Nad |
I use Garageband when I perform and its very much like Logic.
I use a variety of tools. including Garageband and Logic to create and work with each song, but the end result is always a .AIF file - the track. Here is a picture of a segment of a file for one song. 
When I complete a track I "Export Song to Disk..." in GB, or "Bounce" in Logic. This creates a .AIF file. Then I drag that .AIF file into the Garageband file I use when I perform. This file has 4 or 5 tracks devoted to that number of microphone settings. The rest of the tracks are these .AIF mixes. One song to a track. To begin, all music tracks are muted. All mics tracks are not muted. I then unmute the track I want to sing to, and select the track the mic I want to use is on. Here I have selected my a mic setup called "Nad's Big Mic" and unmuted the track "Tomorrow Never Knows". 
I have an external mixer outputting to the Mac's sound input. The sound output from the Mac feeds into the external mixer's IN. Headphones connect to this mixer, not to the computer. There is no latentcy because you are monitoring the music coming from the mac into the mixer and the microphone going into the mixer. Finally , set Nicecast to listen to Garageband. The fun part comes in setting your volume levels. This is because you have several volume levels to consider. There is the level of your mic and the track (separately) in Garageband. There is the output level of Garageband itself, and then the levels on the external mixer and on the Nicecast software. This may seem daunting but you jsut work you war down the list. Set your track to a level that seldom to never (I lean to never) go into the red. Set your mic (or guitar or both) to the 0db setting. Then use the external mixer to adjsut the volume so that it does not overdrive the mixer then set the level from the mixer to the mic channel of Garageband so that the mixer drives the mic as hard as it can without sending either the mixer's level or the GB mic channels level into the red. Then balance the mic and the track by adjusting the track up or down. Leave the mic set. Then adjust the main output of Garageband so it is as loud as it can be without going into the red. Then adjust Nicecast. My experience is you jsut turn Nicecast all the way up. This sounds liek a lot of work to setup and I suppose it is. But once you have your levels set never touch but the level of each music track (leaving all other settings as they are on the mixer and in garageband. This means everythign stays set. When you add a track simply set that track's volume to fit your mic and or guitar. In the second picture, showing tracks and mics, note each music track volume slider is set lightly different. "Tomorrow Never Knows" shows the volume all the way off because I have used automation on that track to fade the track in. Ideally you would want to mix the track such that it faded in without having to use the GB automation which takes processing power. My Mac can handle this though. A final thought here about processing power involved. The file I use (part of which is shown in the second pic) with mics and tracks contains over 230 songs (tracks). So it can take a few minutes to start up. However, in terms of processing power, during play I am only using TWO tracks. The mic and the music track. This is no strain on the system, so doing things like volume automation can be done without overloading they system. You really arent going to get away with using GB or Logic with multiple tracks - one track per instrument plus mics to work for you while performing. First, because the processing power to drive all those tracks and effects simultaneously is huge, and second because you would have to stop between each song and load a different file. Summary, mix your songs to .AIF. Then create a GB file to put all of your completed tracks into. |
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| Norris Shepherd |
nothing to add.. just had to say that's a great post about Mac's Nads... i mean Nad's Mac. 
Great and simple setup. I never ever would have thought up such a logical way of doing things! Gonna remember to refer any future Mac users who use tracks to it down the road. |
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| Silas Scarborough |
Good write-up but it's not clear what you mean by mixer. This isn't a nitpick as this part is where a lot of people fall down. I used a Firewire audio interface in part because it bypasses the standard Mac audio port which has been judged too noisy by many far more technical than I'll ever be. You may be doing something similar but 'outputting to Mac's sound input' sounds uncomfortably close to doing it the way that's really not going to give you the optimum sound. A relatively-inexpensive way to cut the Mac audio ports out of it is to use a TASCAM (or similar) USB interface as that will be adequate for any stereo input and will be cleaner than the audio ports. For multi-channel applications, you'll want to use a Firewire audio interface. (At least one model of Mac laptop does not have a Firewire port) Note: This is the purist stuff for when you want to get a pristine audio signal onto the stream. Maybe you want a little grunge to your sound and don't want to go this far. Nothing wrong with that. My point is only technical. |
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| Nad |
[quote="Silas Scarborough"]
I dint want to get too technical with my post, but I have an M-AUDIO 2496 PCI board http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile2496.html and use that for virtually latency free audio/midi in/out. I believe this is even more efficient that USB or Firewire. I run my sample rate at 44.1 though the card can do 192. Once you push a 192 created .AIF thru a stream yer not talking about the purity you can get at 192 anywho. The external mixer is a Behringer UB1204fx-PRO http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/UB1204FX.aspx, which is overkill because it has builtiin effects I never use because they are nowhere near as nice as the effects I can get inside of Garageband. But it does have 1/4 phone jacks for mics and guitars as well as the other kind of mic connections (I use but forget what they are called). It also has switchable mic preamps, hi and low filters, and a gazillion knobs and buttons. Any sort of routing in/out/thru is accomodated. This model has been discontinued and re-marketed under the Eurorack name. I have a PowerPC Mac G5 with 5.5 GB ram and a terabyte of storage. Although I bought to early for the Intel processor, my mac does more than what I need it to do and I expect it will for some years to come. I have no problem running garageband, nicecast, SL, photoshop, transmission, Safari web browser (a pig), and Logic at the same time. I have accidently left all this stuff running whilst doing shows without a hiccup. SL is slow whether all this is running or not. The Mac SL is a rather shoddy port of the PC program. SL is not frustratingly slow though, so personally I cannot justify purchasing a new Mac with the Intel processor or a PC just to run SL, though I do know that would work better. Garageband is a great program, btw. You can get it only from Apple for $600. They will throw in a free mac mini with the deal http://www.apple.com/macmini/ - that is you have to have a mac to run garageband and a mini mac for $600 includes the Garageband software.
edited: oops - that was my old card. I currently have this card installed http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile192.html |
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| keith |
Great info, thanks! I'll check it out.
Got myself a pro desktop with a couple megs of ram, so I'm hoping I'll be in good shape. |
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| Silas Scarborough |
I hope you mean a couple of GIGs of RAM. You might want to boost that as adding a couple more gigabytes of RAM is the single cheapest performance boost you can give to the box and it's ridiculously easy to install in a Mac desktop. |
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| keith |
Did I say megs? Damn...still thinking I'm in 90s PC land. I mean gigs.
I guess I can always add more--got space for 16 gigs. But I've never had any major performance issues in the year I bought the computer. You think it's worth going for another couple gigs? Then again, that's a no-brainer... |
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| Silas Scarborough |
Sure the memory is worth it. Any half-way hopped-up desktop probably cost well over a grand. Putting a couple of hundred dollars more memory into it seems a value to me. The improvement will be subtle but it's worthwhile, particularly for running big programs, running a whole lot of them at the same time, and/or running programs with big memory requirements for data...in other words, pretty much anything a computer does.
I've got eight GB in my desktop but I wouldn't put more in it unless I have some specific problem I am trying to solve. |
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| keith |
So, Nad, did you say that all your mic tracks are unmuted and you just select the track you want to sing with? When I do that (in Logic) I get all the mic tracks working at the same time. I've got a few songs that have heavily effected vocals in the verse then clean vocals in the chorus, so I'm trying to figure out a good way to work out the transitions. Clicking the mute between tracks ain't going to cut it.
I did create a setup similar to yours in Logic and it worked well, though I gotta get a handle on my mic/backing track levels. Seems like a tossup between using Logic or Mainstage (with backing tracks assigned to sampler/controller keys), though I think Mainstage has a feature that let's one patch ring out as you switch to another... |
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| Nad |
I did say that except I use GB - i never tried the setup with Logic. I suggest you do this with GB. With GB the mic you select is the only mic working. I jsut dont know about Logic. I olnly use Logic to work on a particular song - then i bounce it out to a AIF that I place into the GB file. |
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