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Komuso Tokugawa

Cool new streaming application

xplatform open source
http://sonicviz.com/wordpress/2008/04/01/broadcast-using-this-tool/
Silas Scarborough

At this rate, maybe PC people will get software as easy to use as Nicecast one day.

Side-note:  Since moving Windows off a PC and running it on a Mac, it hasn't crashed once and neither has SL.  This has been over 2-3 weeks!
Komuso Tokugawa

someone pc in your soup again Sourless?
Doubledown Tandino

Komuso,  what's the pluses/minuses of this program?
Doubledown Tandino

Doubledown Tandino wrote:
Komuso,  what's the pluses/minuses of this program?


well.. pros, obviously the recording, and the less clunky.

cons.  learning curve..

but anything else


also, i blogged about it at http://djdoubledown.blogspot.com
Komuso Tokugawa

Good Q dt.

Basically I have a very high workload with some of the gigs I do, esp more recently doing collaborative ninjams while running visuals as well.

I only need my streaming app to do a couple of things - stream and record.
A bonus is to tell me the stats in realtime so I can track how many logged in and monitor for breaks in the stream, but I now use NetMeter to do the latter and I can have a firefox window open logged into my shoutcast admin to tell me the current logins - and I can also download the stats later anyway.

So I want a very simple 1 click app to control streaming and recording.

To answer your q:
+ simple
+ fairly lightweight
+ flexible enough on streaming and recording formats
+ responsive developer
+ opensource xplatform

- record "on stream connection" setup a little non-intuitive (giving developer feedback now) - manual record aok though.
- no stats graph - can do without but would nice to have a la simplecast

Apart from that is does exactly what I need for this function in my live performance workflow. Other people may need more;-)
Toby Lancaster

I found this app very straightforward to use. The big benefit for me over the free version of Simplecast is the ability to name streams. That's really useful if you've got several set up.
Doubledown Tandino

Yeah, I'm already on this program!  lovin it.    It's a little "sharewarey" meaning I'm afraid there's glitches occurring... but it's not... it just looks weird, but it's workin good.

Yeah, this is defintiely a two thumbs up for me.    I've never liked SAM,   shoutcast has always been fine with me, because I believe shoutcast set up servers and the program shoutcast work great together.  

Komuso, lemme ask ya about this program.. cause I can't seem to find it....   how do you set and change what sounds the program will stream:
All soundcard?   soundcard minus mic?   mic only?    skype and music?
there's no way to change those type of settings is there?
Cause right now... I'm able to stream external stuff (turntable/mixer/mic).....  but while that is happening, it wont stream any computer sounds (basically like shoutcast) ....  but I want the 'stream everything' option on.
Toby Lancaster

As far as I can see, the only option is to change the selection from available options in the Audio Device drop down box on the Main tab. I presume the rest is down to the audio routing on your soundcards' mixer?
Doubledown Tandino

yeah, it isn't my soundcard mixer...   ...and yeah, it looks like that drop down menu are the options.

... this may be a me only thing then....   I can't seem to get ALL SOUND to stream out....  external equipment + computer sounds
casemunro

I downloaded it last night and did some testing, will put it through the paces in our set tonight.  I really like the ability to have multiple stream configs loaded, what a bonus not to have to riff through notecards looking for stream details for a particular venue.  Looking forward to being able to easily record the set, I captured a couple through Audacity before, but I gave up as I was already cluttered with open applications.  Thanks for the tip off Komu!
Komuso Tokugawa

Doubledown Tandino wrote:
yeah, it isn't my soundcard mixer...   ...and yeah, it looks like that drop down menu are the options.

... this may be a me only thing then....   I can't seem to get ALL SOUND to stream out....  external equipment + computer sounds


Not sure what you mean DT.
It's pretty much just a simple streaming app that works off what audio inputs your system has, which are what you get listed in the Audio Device dropdown. You can only have one at a time selected so if your audio is not on this input you won't get it out.

For example, I have a presonus firebox feeding my DAW [Reaper] with 17 tracks for my sl Live configuration. Mics, instruments, drums split per track, bass, ninjams. Master out of my firebox then goes back into my onboard audio which I pick up in the streaming app as the audio input.

I used the same routing configuration whether I use simplecast, SAM, or winamp.
Butt just simplifies things for me, esp with the number of apps, subapps, and vst/vsti interfaces I'm monitoring.

Not sure what your routing setup is, though, so it depends on what you want to do.
BabbleGrabble

I'm trying to figure out if you can mix in prerecorded stuff while you play live - that's probably the only reason I use SAM.
bip

Hi guys,

my name is Daniel, I'm the developer of butt.
At first I want to thank Komuso for introducing the tool in this forum.

I try to answer some of your questions. If I have forgot one, just tell me Smile

>> I can't seem to get ALL SOUND to stream out

In the "Devices" dropdown-menu you see all record devices that are available on your machine.
Usually the "default" device is what you want to use.
You can't use butt for selecting what you want to record.
You need to set this in the audiomixer of your operating system.
There you can select e.g. "line-in" "mic" or "all what you hear"

>>I'm trying to figure out if you can mix in prerecorded stuff while you
>>play live - that's probably the only reason I use SAM.

At the moment this is not possible.
But I plan to add something like hot-buttons to mix some jingles or dropins into the stream.

Autoreconnecting was broken in 0.1.8, so I released 0.1.9 some hours ago.

I hope the recording is more intuitive now.
If you activate the "start rec. when connected" checkbox,
butt starts automatically the recording. You don't need to click on the
record button anymore Smile

Here is the ChangeLog:

Version 0.1.9 (2008-04-10)
==========
* minor GUI makeup
* made butt more verbose
* fixed possible segfault when trying to EDIT stream info
* fixed automatic reconnection
* filenames can be indexed with the %i variable now
* renamed "rec not until connected" checkbox to "start rec. when connected"
* added orange record icon for "armed" state ("start rec. when connected" = 1)
* butt starts recording as soon as connected, when in "armed" state

Would be nice if some of you give it a try Smile

http://sourceforge.net/project/platformdownload.php?group_id=206231

regards,
Daniel
BabbleGrabble

Outstanding, Daniel. Thank you for your responses and it's great to see you here! I hope to test it out when I can find a good chunk of free time (which is rare these days).
Toby Lancaster

I've used BUTT several times, and it's all been good so far  Smile ....as long as I remember to click PLAY!

Great to see you here Daniel!
Zak Claxton

I used BUTT just a few minutes ago. Then I flushed, and everything was fine.
EvaMoon

TMI
Toby Lancaster

hmm....I was pondering the choice of name too....

TMI Zak!  Laughing
Zak Claxton

What? I had a bowl of Grape Nuts and three cups of coffee for breakfast. Sheesh!
Silas Scarborough

bip wrote:
In the "Devices" dropdown-menu you see all record devices that are available on your machine.
Usually the "default" device is what you want to use.
You can't use butt for selecting what you want to record.
You need to set this in the audiomixer of your operating system.
There you can select e.g. "line-in" "mic" or "all what you hear"

>>I'm trying to figure out if you can mix in prerecorded stuff while you
>>play live - that's probably the only reason I use SAM.


Here's how to run as many channels as you like, external inputs and back tracks.

1)  Get a USB or Firewire audio interface.
2)  Open your recording software
3)  Load it with the AIFF mixdowns of your back tracks (i.e. mixdown your recordings to individual stereo AIFFs and then import each one into a separate track in your recording software.)
4)  Mute all the individual songs you just loaded
5)  Set up empty record channels and assign each one to a different input channel from your audio interface.  Ensure monitor is turned on for that channel.
6)  Set up your streaming software to capture all system audio
7)  In your recording software, unmute one of your backing track songs and click play
Cool  You should now be able to sing into your live mike, play guitar, keys, etc and all should be heard/broadcast

Variations on the theme:

If you have a hardware mixer, you can go with a USB audio interface such as TASCAM US-122 as that will support the stereo output from the mixer.

If you're mixing in software then you're likely already using a Firewire audio interface because of the additional channels it will support.  I had tremendous difficulty in getting set up with a Presonus Firestudio Project and it's still not clear what resolved the problem but it's working perfectly now and provides excellent service.  It supports 8-ins and has 10-outs.

The flexibility of the Firewire solution is obvious but other considerations of whether it is better to use a hardware or a software mixer will likely take on religious fervor so I'll leave them alone.


Komuso:  No PC in my corn flakes or whatever.  It just amuses me to see the marveling at some PC software that's finally written the way it should have been written in the first place.  Don't get me wrong; I'm happy that you all have this software now as I've heard the agonizing from people trying to get started in audio on PCs.
Doubledown Tandino

THANK YOU!!!!!!!! THAT WAS IT RIGHT THERE!!!!!


Silas also gets another +1 point for also showing that M-Audio can suck.

... so my USB interface is the M-Audio box.....     the driver and program properties was what needed to be changed, and what you said above was it!!!!!!!


you da man!
Komuso Tokugawa

Silas Scarborough wrote:

Komuso:  No PC in my corn flakes or whatever.  It just amuses me to see the marveling at some PC software that's finally written the way it should have been written in the first place.  Don't get me wrong; I'm happy that you all have this software now as I've heard the agonizing from people trying to get started in audio on PCs.


a) No one is "Marveling" over anything. It's a review of a neat little lighweight opensource tool that MAY suit SOME live musicians

b) Nicecast, like SAM Broadcaster, is overkill for many streaming situations especially for live musicians using a DAW setup and pro outboard audio interface. Suggest your read the bloated feature set for nicecast.
Simplecast on the PC does a fantastic job actually - I just want something even more simpler for my useage context.

c) re: pc vs mac debate YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNN
Reality is they are both great platforms for Audio with many easy to use hardware/software combinations [Sorry to bust your "mac rulz" bubble their Bigguy], and they both have strong and weak points in different usage contexts. To say otherwise is complete bs.
However, if you need to feel superior because you bought a mac, whatever...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
DjaiSkjellerup

All my shows this weekend have been played through my BUTT. It's worked perfectly. Thanks for a great product Daniel and thanks for bringing it to our attention Komuso  Smile
Zak Claxton

DjaiSkjellerup wrote:
All my shows this weekend have been played through my BUTT. It's worked perfectly.


Man, I love this software purely for the comedy potential. Thanks Daniel!
Tommy CUlt

I am still laffin over Djai's post Razz
Komuso Tokugawa

personally I just play my BUTT off... Very Happy
Silas Scarborough

[quote="Komuso Tokugawa"]
Silas Scarborough wrote:

b) Nicecast, like SAM Broadcaster, is overkill for many streaming situations especially for live musicians using a DAW setup and pro outboard audio interface. Suggest your read the bloated feature set for nicecast.


What rubbish is this!  To get streaming, I launch the app, verify the list of stream configurations to make sure I'm starting the right one, click connect....I'm done.

It's not clear what you perceive as bloated.  The only component I don't use much is the server but I use and require every other aspect of the program.  One-button recording and the like is bloat?  I thought I read you wishing for just that, um, bloated feature a few posts back.

Komuso Tokugawa wrote:

Simplecast on the PC does a fantastic job actually - I just want something even more simpler for my useage context.


Your 'useage context???'  Cripes, man, the corporation is eating your brain!  That ain't English.

Komuso Tokugawa wrote:

c) re: pc vs mac debate YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNN
Reality is they are both great platforms for Audio with many easy to use hardware/software combinations [Sorry to bust your "mac rulz" bubble their Bigguy], and they both have strong and weak points in different usage contexts. To say otherwise is complete bs.
However, if you need to feel superior because you bought a mac, whatever...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Nah, I just pump up Macs to share the enthusiasm.  I lost all feelings of superiority when the kingdom was usurped by the Chinese and my family had to live on rivercraft for some years before we could make our way to freedom.
Komuso Tokugawa

Now you really are talking out your BUTT Silas...maybe you should just start playing out of it instead! Laughing
bip

calm down guys.
Everyone can use what he wants...

however, it's nice to hear that most of you enjoy the tool, especially the name Wink
Doubledown Tandino

Anyone wanna play MMORPPong  ??

You have to have a Commodore 64 with a 1200 baud to play... but if anyone's interested, lemme know and i'll give you the number to dial into.


screw macs and pcs
Jambalaya

Interesting - maybe I'll try this sometime. Smile  

For our uses, though, REAPER is still the best way. I'd rather record our sets pre-encoder, rather than have only a stereo MP3.
Komuso Tokugawa

Jambalaya wrote:
Interesting - maybe I'll try this sometime. Smile  

For our uses, though, REAPER is still the best way. I'd rather record our sets pre-encoder, rather than have only a stereo MP3.


I find recording and listening to your performances is critical for learning and improving, not so much for making masters.

I use Reaper as well for SL Live, but afaik you can only record into wav format in multi track realtime, which means you need a lot of hard drive space if you record every gig.

A 1 hour gig at 256kbps mp3 is ~110mb, so it adds up quickly if you play a lot.
I have about 30gb of sl gigs floating around now. I was recording at 320kbps but have dropped to 256 recently as a quality/space compromise.

Ninjam however records sessions as ogg and then gives you the option to load the project render as wav, which is pretty efficient in terms of space.

Would be good if you could do same for regular reaper sessions, unless I've missed something.

trots off to RTFM...
Komuso Tokugawa

Silas Scarborough wrote:
Komuso Tokugawa wrote:
Silas Scarborough wrote:

b) Nicecast, like SAM Broadcaster, is overkill for many streaming situations especially for live musicians using a DAW setup and pro outboard audio interface. Suggest your read the bloated feature set for nicecast.


What rubbish is this!  To get streaming, I launch the app, verify the list of stream configurations to make sure I'm starting the right one, click connect....I'm done.

It's not clear what you perceive as bloated.  The only component I don't use much is the server but I use and require every other aspect of the program.  One-button recording and the like is bloat?  I thought I read you wishing for just that, um, bloated feature a few posts back.


re: bloatware
http://www.rogueamoeba.com/nicecast/features.php
very similar to SAM broadcaster
http://www.spacialaudio.com/?page=sam-broadcaster-matrix

ie: bloatware for MY usage context - see next point

Silas Scarborough wrote:

Komuso Tokugawa wrote:

Simplecast on the PC does a fantastic job actually - I just want something even more simpler for my useage context.


Your 'useage context???'  Cripes, man, the corporation is eating your brain!  That ain't English.


ah..yes it is English I'm afraid. My application use cases/useage context [ie: context of use in application development terminology] are different from yours and others.
It's not corporation speak...it's porfeshnul developer speak for analysing the end users needs/wants for applications of any size, from individuals to teh Evul Korporations.

I don't need all the features of SAM/Nicecast etc. While they CAN do all that BUTT does, I don't need it. I did use simplecast for a long time, decided to see if there were any new apps out there, did some googoogling and came across BUTT. Like what I saw, wrote it up, spread teh word.

Silas Scarborough wrote:

Komuso Tokugawa wrote:

c) re: pc vs mac debate YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNN
Reality is they are both great platforms for Audio with many easy to use hardware/software combinations [Sorry to bust your "mac rulz" bubble their Bigguy], and they both have strong and weak points in different usage contexts. To say otherwise is complete bs.
However, if you need to feel superior because you bought a mac, whatever...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Nah, I just pump up Macs to share the enthusiasm.  I lost all feelings of superiority when the kingdom was usurped by the Chinese and my family had to live on rivercraft for some years before we could make our way to freedom.


uh, yeah...whatever. Welcome to the real world.
Jambalaya

Komuso Tokugawa wrote:
Jambalaya wrote:
Interesting - maybe I'll try this sometime. Smile  

For our uses, though, REAPER is still the best way. I'd rather record our sets pre-encoder, rather than have only a stereo MP3.


I find recording and listening to your performances is critical for learning and improving, not so much for making masters.

I use Reaper as well for SL Live, but afaik you can only record into wav format in multi track realtime, which means you need a lot of hard drive space if you record every gig.

A 1 hour gig at 256kbps mp3 is ~110mb, so it adds up quickly if you play a lot.
I have about 30gb of sl gigs floating around now. I was recording at 320kbps but have dropped to 256 recently as a quality/space compromise.

Ninjam however records sessions as ogg and then gives you the option to load the project render as wav, which is pretty efficient in terms of space.

Would be good if you could do same for regular reaper sessions, unless I've missed something.

trots off to RTFM...


The "About" page at Cockos says: "Direct multi-track recording to many formats including WAV/BWF/W64, AIFF, WavPack, FLAC, OGG, and MIDI." So apparently you can. Wink

I prefer it not only for multitracking performances but also because the stream quality has a lot of artifacts too. we usually stream at 96k to keep things comfortable for most clients, but that's about the lowest you can stream without it sounding like utter crap IMHO. If you're not interested in releasing them them it doesn't matter much, but if you are it's better to have the higher-quality files - if you have the disk space of course.

FLAC is awesome for cutting file size while keeping full fidelity. I've used it in the past for internet collabs, and you can cut the size of a WAV file significantly with no loss of quality. I like Ogg more than mp3, also.
Komuso Tokugawa

Jambalaya wrote:

The "About" page at Cockos says: "Direct multi-track recording to many formats including WAV/BWF/W64, AIFF, WavPack, FLAC, OGG, and MIDI." So apparently you can. Wink

I prefer it not only for multitracking performances but also because the stream quality has a lot of artifacts too. we usually stream at 96k to keep things comfortable for most clients, but that's about the lowest you can stream without it sounding like utter crap IMHO. If you're not interested in releasing them them it doesn't matter much, but if you are it's better to have the higher-quality files - if you have the disk space of course.
....


ah..I see now. Doh. Project Settings/Audio Format for new recordings.

In any event the way I do it I'm not recording the stream that's going out to SL at 64K. I record it at 256k or 320k BEFORE that. BUTT will let you do that as well was my point - stream at one resolution and record at the same time at a higher one from the same input.
Toby Lancaster

Just installed v1.10. The GUI is looking nicer now.

Toby
Silas Scarborough

Komuso Tokugawa wrote:
ah..yes it is English I'm afraid. My application use cases/useage context [ie: context of use in application development terminology] are different from yours and others.
It's not corporation speak...it's porfeshnul developer speak for analysing the end users needs/wants for applications of any size, from individuals to teh Evul Korporations.


Ah, you're thinking I'm a Colorado long-hair making a living designing ashtrays and pot pipes!  And you would be exactly right so perhaps I can show you our new line of ashtray / pot pipe combinations.  It's a great value at $19.95 but you must act now!
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