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Song Clanger

Help with setup for USB streaming

Ok I will make this as simple as possible (I hope). I am trying to help a friend get setup to stream.  I successfully stream, but to be honest I know one way of doing it that works for me and am not sure about alternatives. Here is my setup and how I do it. I am hoping for comments on what she might try:

Line6 USB Toneport box plugs into USB on PC for mixing/effects
Analog line outs run from the toneport to the PC soundcard input
Simplecast takes the output from the soundcard and relays to shoutcast and I am in SL

Very simple setup and works fine for me.  Here is her setup:

USB mixer plugs into USB on her PC

That is really as far as she has gotten. She does not have a cable that is running into her soundcard and as far as I know Simplecast only picks up the soundcard as an output.  She has Winamp with the DSP plugin, but as far as I know the only choices there for outputs are soundcard and Winamp itself.

So the main question is--if she has her USB mixer plugged into her PC how does she get that internal signal from the PC into shoutcast? Is there another program that can do that? Or does she have to do what I do and link the mixer to her soundcard input?  

I think we are looking for a way to bypass that if possible.  

Thanks for any help
RayW

OK... this isn't much help.  But, I ran into this, too.  No software (other than my high end recording software) recognized the USB input.  I HAD to use the sound card before Simplecast (or Winamp, ftm) would see it.

However, it may just be a driver setup issue, too.  Not sure (that's why I'm not much help) because I gave-up too easily just to make the fool thing work.

EDIT:    The thing I didn't pursue enough was seeing what was in the dropdowns on the Control Panel / Sounds and Audio Devices / Audio Tab.  The Sounds Recording device selection is rather important, as well as the "sources" that show up in the Play Control (right click on Volume icon, select adjust audio properties).  Clicking on the Options in the menu, properties brings up a box that lists all the sources your PC knows about.  One of them may be unchecked.  So, nothing will come from it.  (Here's where I a little foggy on all the possibilities.)
Song Clanger

Thanks Ray

Ok we have one vote that you HAVE to go to the soundcard. Anyone else know of a different way?
Zak Claxton

I'm a Mac guy (hello, I'm a Mac), and the ONLY way I connect audio to my Mac is via USB (using my Digidesign audio interface). I'm not going to be much help here.

However, it's been my experience that you absolutely need to tell the software where to look for the audio signal. But since I'm absolutely retarded when it comes to PCs, I can't tell you how to go about doing that.

Glad I could... help?  Smile
BabbleGrabble

I am going to repeat something I wrote in another thread that might be of use:

"... go into the Playback options for Volume Control (Windows) and uncheck the "Mute" for Microphone and virtually everything else.

"Then (also in Volume Control) under Options > Properties, select the "Recording" option under "Adjust volume for" and OK. Here, make sure the first option is checked instead of Microphone (it says "Stereo Mix" on my PC here, but it is called something different at home, and I've seen other names listed on forums, but I believe it is always the first choice, not selected by default - Microphone is the default, which does not incorporate other sources)."

I am looking into getting a TonePort - which model is this? Are you happy with it?
Song Clanger

So babble what do you use to actually do the streaming? You are saying if you do what you indicate and then use Simplecast for instance that it will treat that as the soundcard output?

I have the Toneport KB37. http://www.line6.com/toneportkb37/

All I can say is it does what I need it to which is provide basic effects and inputs and a simple keyboard midi trigger thing. It is easy to use. But I have very little experience with anything else. Just a electronic newb here. I have had a couple toneports and they do what they advertise.
BabbleGrabble

That's the same one I've been looking at, but have also been considering the next step down (w/o the keyboard). I've heard some really nice guitar effects out of an earlier model.

I use SAM for streaming, which I imagine has its own peculiarities in its configuration, but I can track down that whole post if it seems like it might be helpful.

EDIT: found it - here's the post:
http://slmc.myfastforum.org/about460.html#4688
Song Clanger

Sure it would be great to get any more info.  One thing about the keyboard model is it is bulky. I have limited space and it has to sit over on my bed. The smaller units have a much smaller footprint. But I needed a keyboard for some basic stuff.

I do get some reasonable tones out of the thing regarding reverb and such. I think for the fairly reasonble cost it is a decent product.

Oh, set up can be a bit wonky on it as far as drivers and such. And I had a specific issue on the USB controller on my Dell and had to buy a seperate USB card for it to work, but that was a Dell thing.

I think Simplecast is a stripped down SAM bascially. So on your setup, do you have the sound OUTPUT going to soundcard? Or does it actually say something else on the output like USB or whatever?  From your instructions it sounds as if adjusting Windows to take a sound output and route it to the soundcard so to speak?
BabbleGrabble

Oops, you beat me to the post ... here's the link again:
http://slmc.myfastforum.org/about460.html#4688

Yes, I output directly to the soundcard and do not use a USB port, so I don't know if this will help or not. But possibly enabling everything in the Windows Playback settings will get the signal included in the stream.

I will have direct experience with your situation as soon as I pick up a TonePort.  Wink  Thanks for the info.

EDIT: sorry, I linked to an earlier post - the link is fixed now.
BabbleGrabble

Was there any resolution to this Song Clanger? I finally picked up some new equipment (although I did not end up with a TonePort) and am facing a very similar problem.

The only fix I've found is to output the USB hardware to the sound card, which is not ideal. The other thing I looked at was "Virtual Audio Cable" ("VAC") to link between softare apps, but I am using Pro Tools for processing / mixing and can't figure out how to assign its output to a VAC (although it's easy to set up in SAM).
Fyrm Fouroux

I have a USB mixer (Alesis) that plugs into my laptop (like Windows Vista). I have Simplecast and it steams whatever I put into my USB mixer up to SL. I don't have a fancy soundcard. I used to use an Edirol external UA25 but I don't bother with that anymore. I stick nothing into my computer other than the USB mixer and I stick everything into that. Dunno if that is useful. Folks tell me the sound is fine.
BabbleGrabble

That is very helpful, Fyrm, thank you; and yes, the sound is great. The fact that you got a USB device to work directly with Simplecast is both encouraging and baffling at the same time. Was there any special configuration that comes to mind to make this possible, or was it just a thing that worked immediately?
Silas Scarborough

Fyrm Fouroux wrote:
I have a USB mixer (Alesis) that plugs into my laptop (like Windows Vista). I have Simplecast and it steams whatever I put into my USB mixer up to SL. I don't have a fancy soundcard. I used to use an Edirol external UA25 but I don't bother with that anymore. I stick nothing into my computer other than the USB mixer and I stick everything into that. Dunno if that is useful. Folks tell me the sound is fine.


I'm missing a bit - How do you monitor??  Headphones in the mixer??  Reason I ask is a friend is having a hell of a time with what seems like a ground loop with a new version of a device that previously worked perfectly and she's swapping sound cards to see what happens.  If swapping the card doesn't work for her tomorrow, would it be ok if she IMed you?  (Your solution is what she's considering for plan 'b')
Fyrm Fouroux

Silas Scarborough wrote:
Fyrm Fouroux wrote:
I have a USB mixer (Alesis) that plugs into my laptop (like Windows Vista). I have Simplecast and it steams whatever I put into my USB mixer up to SL. I don't have a fancy soundcard. I used to use an Edirol external UA25 but I don't bother with that anymore. I stick nothing into my computer other than the USB mixer and I stick everything into that. Dunno if that is useful. Folks tell me the sound is fine.


I'm missing a bit - How do you monitor??  Headphones in the mixer??  Reason I ask is a friend is having a hell of a time with what seems like a ground loop with a new version of a device that previously worked perfectly and she's swapping sound cards to see what happens.  If swapping the card doesn't work for her tomorrow, would it be ok if she IMed you?  (Your solution is what she's considering for plan 'b')

Hi Silas - yes no problem about the IM. And I have to stress that my solution is pretty unsophisticated and low-end investment (apart from my mic).

Ok, as for monitoring, I tried various things but in the end I stuck a 1/4 inch to 1/8 inch jack converter into the 'Headphones Out' socket of my Alesis USB mixer and put an extension lead (connected to an ordinary bog-standard set of mp3-style earphones) into that so I can move around a bit - my goal was to be able to sit on my bar stool and play guitar but also stand up, take one pace and sit at my Yamaha electric piano which sits against the opposite wall in what is a very small room (I call it my music den, rather than a fully-blown studio).

There are a couple of comments I will make on this. I like the in-ear monitoring of guitar and voice. It definitely helps me adjust my 'Norris-Lean-Back' position when singing into my AKG C414 and also what I want out of my electro acoustic guitar which plugs direct to the Alesis mixer. There is roughly a 20-30 second lag to what is coming back from SL but I think this is pretty much universal. I try to monitor the chat from the previous song when I finish the current song.

I have found that the sound quality that I monitor does change with different earphones, so I am lazily looking around for a a fancy pair to buy maybe sometime in the future. The other thing I have noticed is this. I'm now spending quite a lot of time singing and playing with in-ear monitoring. And when I play out in rl the PA set up is often minimal for unplugged buskers, without monitors on stage. I now find that situation really difficult if I am playing anything other than basic chords on the guitar (I have become too used to hearing the guitar with really good in-ear monitoring). The other thing is that in England we just had a national holiday last Monday and I had a bunch of friends around for a BBQ. Well, I had some music mates there, so we played a few songs on acoustic guitars on the lawn in my garden without any amplification whatever. And I felt both my voice and guitar sounded strange. The conclusion I have drawn is that my monitoring needs have been raised through frequent use of the earphones when streaming up. I don't quite know what to do about that, but at least I'm prepared for it when I play out in rl now.
Fyrm Fouroux

BabbleGrabble wrote:
That is very helpful, Fyrm, thank you; and yes, the sound is great. The fact that you got a USB device to work directly with Simplecast is both encouraging and baffling at the same time. Was there any special configuration that comes to mind to make this possible, or was it just a thing that worked immediately?

Hi BG. Well, I have to say when I first started up I was getting a lot of help on this from Fabs Sinatra, my fellow Brit, and nothing was working! I could not get any of the freebie streamers to work and in the end I bought my Simplecast. But it seemed to work properly pretty much from the start. My only rules would be:
    Make sure the USB mixer is switched on and plugged into the computer BEFORE you fire up the Simplecast software (otherwise I get levels showing on the mixer but no levels on the Simplcast meters.

    Simplecast like some other stuff doesn't like the http:// at the start of the address

    I start Simplecast by right-clicking the screen icon and choosing to 'Run as Adminstrator'. I am using Vista, I have heard that doesn't matter with Vista but it DOES matter if using Windows XP

    In terms of the ENCODERS definitions, when you add the stream info, I choose Quality: medium; Format MP3 96 kb/s 1 khz Stereo. The Server Type I choose as 'Shoutcast'

    The stream will then be listed as a numbered line on the ENCODERS screen and it will say that it is 'idle' in the STATUS column and also it will say 'encoder not started'. When I want to start actually streaming, I right click on the numbered line for the stream I want (I've currently got about 35 different streams each defined for a different venue stream in SL). So say Rocky Shores was my #16 definition - I would right-click line #16 in the Simplecast encoders screen. Then I click start from the right-click menu. That is how I start my stream actually flowing up to SL. If the SL venue is not recieving you, you get an error message on the Simplecast ENCODER screen line you have just right-clicked.

Phew! I think I'll go and have a little lie down after all that  Razz  Do feel free to IM if this isn't clear.
Song Clanger

Solution

The person did get a resolution but sadly I do not recall how. I am pretty sure she  ended up running outputs to the soundcard.  The only way I have gotten my thing to work is actually run cables from the Toneport output to the soundcard.  There HAS to be some way for modern software to recognize a USB input but I haven't messed around with it much.  It does what I need and am loathe to mess with it further until I have need. Good luck!
Norris Shepherd

Heya.  Just firing in on this one....

I spoke with Song on the initial thing (i think it was for a lady with a name starting with 'T'.).  What we did was just run the line out from her mixer to line in on soundcard.   I've never succeeded in getting my alesis firewire to communicate by firewire, so i use line out as well.

BabbleGrabble... i have a toneport now too (not what you have, but it might be similar setup).  And if i want to use the usb signal to stream with i need to do the following:

In control panel, under "Sounds and Audio Devices", i go to the Audio tab, and select 'line6 toneport'  from the dropdown list for all items (Sound Playback, Sound Recording, and Midi Playback).  I do the same on the 'voice' tab.. though it probably doesn't matter.  (i think you have a PC.... right?)

This makes my Toneport the default audio card of my system.  And if i want to stream using Winamp.. and select 'soundcard'... it gets the signal from my Tonport.

..hope that helps.  (not even sure i'm answering the right question... lol)
BabbleGrabble

I think you nailed it, Norris, but I haven't succeeded yet - there are some other variables in the setup that I'm working out, and it seems that something is missing in the installation (although it says it's all there). I can select the device for certain things but not others, and I ought to be able to find a control panel, which is also non-existent. So something's not right, but you have confirmed my own thoughts on the central issue here, so thank you.

Also, thanks for your responses, Fyrm and Song - you've been very helpful as I whittle through the nitpicky details of this insanely frustrating experience. It's funny (but not surprising) how nearly exact your streaming setup is in Simplecast, Fyrm - that part works great, as long as I can get the sound in there.
Song Clanger

Toneport!

Norris you got a Toneport?  I've had two different ones now. Seems to be working out for me. I am going to try what you describe. If that will work within the windblows control panel then I should be able to bypass the whole running outputs to the soundcard deal.
Norris Shepherd

Re: Toneport!

Song Clanger wrote:
Norris you got a Toneport?  


yeah.. had been eyeballing them for so long.  Then the UX2 dropped to $139... went good with my Ibanez Electric (used - $125).  They were good for the credit card.

I'm really impressed with what they can do.  Probably not as good as the real things  (i.e. real guitar and real amps)... but my ears are kinda like me... not real sophisticated.  Smile
BabbleGrabble

I was inches away from getting a TonePort myself - finally talked myself into the Mbox2 (don't attack me, Silas - lol).
Silas Scarborough

BabbleGrabble wrote:
I was inches away from getting a TonePort myself - finally talked myself into the Mbox2 (don't attack me, Silas - lol).


I don't want to attack you; I want to blow up Digidesign!  lol

Interesting stuff here.  I won't bore you with a lot of Mac stuff but, man, if it were this hard on a Mac, I dunno if I'd even be doing it.

I hear the monitoring off the mixer so, unless, there's some effects device hanging off it then the signal goes through completely dry, correct?  (Barring any stompbox prior to the mixer)  Advantage to the USB mixer seems to me that there's no propagation delay; you're not sending the signal to the computer to jack it around before sending it back out the interface to hear it.
BabbleGrabble

No, I was just teasing ... and I realize Macs are cool - it just happens to be my livelihood, suffering in the PC world. If the monitoring is anything like the Mbox, you hear the wet mix through the headphones plugged into the hardware ... but Pro Tools and the Mbox work together in this way.
Silas Scarborough

BabbleGrabble wrote:
No, I was just teasing ... and I realize Macs are cool - it just happens to be my livelihood, suffering in the PC world. If the monitoring is anything like the Mbox, you hear the wet mix through the headphones plugged into the hardware ... but Pro Tools and the Mbox work together in this way.


I beg to differ:  Pro Tools LE don't do nuffin' on Leopard 10.5.2 except make stinky noises which I can easily do without any assistance at all.

The dry/wet stuff is what I'm trying to nail for certain as I'd be surprised if the mixer were smart enough to proceed the outbound audio over USB and route it to attached monitors.  Maybe I'm just being thick but it seems like a one-way audio stream as opposed to the way the Mbox2 or similar would behave.  Can anyone confirm?
Song Clanger

:(

I tried what you said Norris and changed my input to the toneport, fired up Simplecast, but it would not treat that as the soundcard input. Might just be a pecularity of simplecast. I'll have to try it with winamp.
BabbleGrabble

I am just now discovering that Spacial Audio does not support ASIO in their products, which is why these USB devices simply will not be detected in the streaming software. I have submitted a trouble ticket for verification.
Song Clanger

Oh no!

Doesn't sound good. I really have liked using Simplecast. By the way, they advertise that you can save the stream to your harddisk but I don't see where you turn this on in Simplecast. Any idea Babble?
BabbleGrabble

Not sure if it's the same (most likely it is), but in SAM, you configure the encoder and click on the Stream Archive tab - check "Save stream to file," browse to the directory where you want to store it, and put in a filename; plus, there are some overwrite options to set, depending on preference.
Fyrm Fouroux

Re: Oh no!

Song Clanger wrote:
Doesn't sound good. I really have liked using Simplecast. By the way, they advertise that you can save the stream to your harddisk but I don't see where you turn this on in Simplecast. Any idea Babble?

Hi Song,
Open up Simplecast
Then, in the Encoders screen, select the line for the particular venue stream you are using, and double click it to bring up the dialogue box
Click on the 'Stream Archive' tab
Check the 'Save stream to file' box so it has a tick in it
at the end of the Filename (oblong) box there is a file icon.
Click on that and you can then browse into your hard disk and select the folder you want the file to be placed in
You might want to name that file with the venue and date of recording - whatever.
Click the 'Open' button
then Click OK to close the dialogue box.
That should do it.
Smile
Song Clanger

Excellent!

Thanks Fyrm! Not sure why I have never seen that before!
Kim Seifert

I also use an Alesis USB Mixer that plugs into the computer.  I then go to my sound control in the control panel and change the microphone default to the codec driver.  Works great.

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