| Archive for SLMC Second LifeŽ Music Community Forum |
| Doubledown Tandino |
Issues regarding music websites & your musicrecently a situation came up (I'll leave the situation description for the people that know it best) where a music site suspended a music artist, however that artist's music is still up on the music site.So...... beyond any sites TOS... an artist's music is theirs, they have total control. If they want their music removed from a music website, it needs to be removed when requested.. So my question is, what are the options or steps involved in a situation like this. Obviously, step 1 is contact the website and ask for the music takedown. .... then what? |
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| Silas Scarborough |
All you've got after that is lawyers, guns, and money. It's grim but nothing else works if people aren't going to be civilized about stuff like that. | ||
| Doubledown Tandino |
Well, i definitely think there's a step 2 in there somewhere between there. So, after asking... but before lawyers.... is there a 2nd step? perhaps a website link to file some sort of digital audio content infringement? Or perhaps Better Business Bureau? |
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| Silas Scarborough |
Sorry, bro, but did you ever hear of the Better Business Bureau doing anything for anyone. They're just a reference bureau and have no power at all as far as I know. Maybe Zak can suggest some magic but I rather doubt it.
There was probably some agreement that was selected prior to uploading the music and, more often than not, they have fine print that says the Web venue can do whatever it wants with the music. I'd like to say there's some way of dealing with this but even with lawyers, guns, and money, I suspect not much can be done. |
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| Doubledown Tandino |
Ironically, the BBB has worked positively for me 3 times.
Given, it was nothing to do with music. Just a company ripping me off. But, yeah, went to BBB on Best Buy once and ended up with money back a month later... and I could follow the progress on their BBB site. ... so yeah BBB doesn't DO anything... but they are there working for the common man against businesses.... so they will send em an official notice. And any company with negative BBB files on em, just in general will be less successful. I'm just saying the BBB doesn't really DO too much, but companies don't want the negativity from BBB and go out of their way to resolve claims. Consider Linden Lab for example..... Linden Lab makes an exerted effort to resolve the BBB claims on em.... even before support tickets. |
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| Silas Scarborough |
The first question in any lawsuit is what were the damages. In this case, the damage is that the Web site is making money through click charges or whatever and those are increased to some undetermined extent but the presence of this hypothetical person's music. The person doesn't get a piece of the action and is therefore damaged.
The fine print in the upload deal probably says the artists aren't entitled to a split on those click charges so that takes you back to the start with what are the damages. |
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| Doubledown Tandino |
I read carefully thesixtyone.com TOS and upload TOS.
It doesn't hold up for anything in case anyone is wondering. Beyond it being simply a TOS that can't hold up.... it generally also says the whole point is the artist controls their music... so thats the sum up of the61's TOS. Yes, they may make a few extra bucks or clicks before the required takedown..... but damages now are minimal, but damages after a music website purposely refuses to adhere to a musician's wishes of removing their music.... well, that could potentially be a major court win if the music site was that stupid to ride it out to court. |
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| Silas Scarborough |
Does it say specifically that the Web site is required to take the artist's music off the site when requested. If it doesn't, you can argue about what control means until the clouds fall out of the sky and not get anywhere. Web law is very much an oyxmoron. | ||
| ticious |
I took a class on tax law once many, many years ago. The entire focus of the class was NOT on the laws themselves. The professor's theory was that the laws change too often to be much worth memorizing.
The focus of the class was to unlearn what you learned in lit classes. In short, if a thing isn't SAID it isn't LAW and it isn't LEGALLY binding. Yes, you can take it to court. On rare occasions, you might sway a judge. More often, the entity that wrote what you're quoting is going to prevail, particularly if the writing is silent or ambiguous and particularly if you can't prove HARD damages (meaning real money it cost you, not potential money you may have earned but didn't). So the lesson he was teaching was that anything you interpret between the lines, you interpret at your own peril. |
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| Silas Scarborough |
DD, dunno if it matters taking stuff of sixty-one anyway. The object of putting jams up there was to give them away and they're still giving them away so the only gainer is spanking sixty-one for the changes they made recently. The same applies to SLusic and a bunch of other sites. Once they've got your stuff, it's pretty much gone but what does it matter, really? | ||
| BabbleGrabble |
I still need to get back over to the forum for the latest, but I believe at least part of this is getting resolved. | ||
| Doubledown Tandino |
This is a RIAA "law" for lack of a better word. Searching for the link now.... but yeah, there's a rule/law in place regarding this issue (for the USA). As soon as I find the link on the RIAA site, I'll link it... I cringe being on the riaa site though. |
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| Doubledown Tandino |
Well, I did hear about Mel's issue with em, and some other SL musicians having an issue about the issue.... ....but, I'm not talking the61 site specifically. I'm really just interested in finding out what we musicians can do if a music website decides to stop listening. Like,.... my situation was in regards to cdbaby.com I signed up with them... agreed to all their terms... started their program, and got to the point where i was supposed to send them a CD and money... so I bailed out.... then later, I found out cdbaby was blocking my tunes on other sites because CDbaby took some sort of digital ownership of it. I sent a polite but firm email explaining exactly what songs they need to remove from their site, and that everything about me and my music needs to be erased. 7 days later I sent them a blunt email, with the first email included.... My 2nd email talked about random threatening stuff like class action and BBB... all empty threats... they responded two days later saying everything has been removed. now, in opposition of this... thedjlist.com has had incorrect dj info for me published for over a year now, and ive sent them a message on occasion.... nothing has changed there. so, just doin some internet snooping on the subject. anything interesting worth reading, I'll post the link |
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| Silas Scarborough |
Hmmm...quite a different thing from a spite move on sixty one. It's surprising that CD Baby was a problem, even tho it's resolved now, as they've got a very good reputation to uphold. I don't see anyone else responding to this but I'm sure whatever you discover will be of interest to people in the future if not now. | ||
| Doubledown Tandino |
Nah, CDBaby totally was no problem, just saying it took 9 days before they removed my stuff. As far as thesixtyone..... like.... I'd hate to see the entire site fall apart cause some teenagers had a great idea but let it fall in the toilet. Simply put, if anyone were to press thesixtyone legally, they'd just take down the site since they are in violation of a zillion things by having remixes and covers and such... and having the buy link link to the wrong songs, etc.... thesixtyone is in sooo many violations, so, I fear if they get pressed, they'll just wipe the entire thing, and sell that bumping technology to some other website. |
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| Zak Claxton |
I haven't participated on thesixtyone primarily for these and related reasons. I'm not saying that you folks shouldn't, though! For most people, sites like these are a good thing, and I'd encourage you to use them.
But some of the policies just don't jibe with my plans for my recorded music. Everyone's situation is different, though, and people have different goals with their music. Regarding your main point, DD: any site that doesn't claim ownership of your music should remove it instantly upon request ("instantly" being a relative term that basically means it's within the course of a few business days). |
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| Doubledown Tandino |
Yeah, for me... thesixtyone has been the best website for my music since mp3.com. SEEING the listeners is most important to me. thesixtyone is a perfect site for MAKING people listen to your tunes for at least a minute. That's why I love it. |
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| Zak Claxton |
Yup, I think it's great. I know lots of folks outside SL who are involved too. | ||
| Doubledown Tandino |
how bout....you post just one Neil young cover, and you sign up as Clax Zaxton? bumps dude.... ya gotta start to get the addiction for bumps in your life like all of us have |
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| Zak Claxton |
Ha ha! No, that's okay. I get enough bumps as it is. Bumps... and lumps. | ||
| Doubledown Tandino |
New thread on thesixtyone:
http://www.thesixtyone.com/forum/topic/1820/ |
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| Doubledown Tandino |
Just for the curious... this is the sort of email I write to a webmaster. This one is to CDBaby: To whom it may concern, I want everything erased from cdbaby. EVERYTHING. my name, my artist name, my cd, my songs, my email.... delete me from your database entirely. 100% gone. Brad Reason, DJ Doubledown, DJDoubledown@gmail.com, "Dress Casual" the cd, and everything else about me. I consider by XX/XX, 2008 ample and enough time to remove my entire existance from cdbaby.com Please let me know if there is more info I need to provide to remove. I have provided ample time, but expect to not find anything relating to me by XX/XX. Furthermore... I have found that due to cdbaby, I cannot list my song on other music websites (im sure you know about this).... ....If I come upon another music site after XX/XX, and that site says I cannot include my songs because of CDBaby, then I will consider that you did NOT remove my info and songs from CDBaby.com within the ample timeframe. Finally, I DO NOT AGREE to any of the terms on CDBaby TOS and rules of conduct. Therefore, I definitely should be fully removed. If you're curious to know why I dislike CDbaby so much: 1) your site has prevented me from uploading certain songs to other websites. I don't care about your explanation as to why you think this is a good thing.... Its not... I haven't ever even used CDBaby, and just from titling a few of my songs on the site, now I cannot upload them elsewhere... because that site says CDBaby has rights, and I need to correct the issue with cdbaby. I get what you're trying to do. and i dont like it. 2) you spam emails way too much. especially prior to me sending my CD to you 3) because of your spam, and also the sneaky approach of not mentioning a price until after signup.... its shady. you've locked up my songs on other sites just for me joining on cdbaby and listing a few of my tunes. You should have mentioned that I would have to PAY to send you my CD of music FIRST I dont need a reply... i just want everything about me removed from cdbaby. and i dont want another email thank you Brad Reasom |