Davin Romano
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standard artist fee structure/estimate?I've searched the FAQ and poked thru a lot of threads, but haven't seen anyone talk about fees much. I have some great dj's that are all with the same group, they charge 500/hour for the regular dj's and the hot ones are 900L/hour.
But with live acts, is there a norm, or is it really all over the board? I've been quoted 2000-10000 for an hour from a number of performers, and I dont want to cut myself short by only being able to afford the low ticket ones.. I am a new venue and willing to fork out some cash to keep a weekly crowd happy, just trying not to break the bank too hard in doing it.
As with my art gallery downstairs from my jazz bar, I'm not in SL to make any profit out of it. I dont even care if I make my tiers back.. but if the venue tips and art sales help fund the performers fees, that would be cool.. I"m just here for the beer, man  and to help everyone creative have another avenue to showcase their talents.
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Norris Shepherd
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I'm going to reply to this for ya Dave.. but to EVERYONE ... PLEASE KEEP THIS THREAD ON TOPIC. 
I just want to avoid another long / emotional / counter-productive / and bad-vibe-inducing discussion on musicians rates, paid vs not paid, tips only vs whatever... this thread is to be about 'Standard artist fee structure/estimate'.
And yes, musicians fees are probably all over the road. Best way to find out for sure would be to ask them or their management.
(assume all numbers are 'plus tips')
0k -- lots of musicians starting out, and some others will play for tips only. Once they start getting paid though, it is harder for them to accept tips only gigs when they can get paying ones.
1K -- people who have played a few shows and have some people who come to their gigs usually ask this.
2k - 5k -- people who are pretty established and have people coming to their gigs regularly might ask this.
5k - 10k --- i think it's relative few who get this on a regular basis (could be wrong though) Big fan groups.. big attendance to shows...
10k + --- small handful who can probably get this amount for a show (again .. I could be way off)
A venue owner would probably have a better idea of this topic though...
.. .once again.. this thread is NOT a place for discussion anything other than 'Standard artist fee structure/estimate'.
Please stay on topic.. related items/discussions have been beat to death many many many times.
/me takes off his teacher voice.
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Zak Claxton
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There's a wide range.
Norris, was that on-topic enough? 
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hexx
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Dunno if there's a general standard, but I always pay 5K. Simply because I think that's a fair price for an hour's worth of excellent vibes. And think of all the happy smiling faces in the crowd - priceless, to say the least!
WTF is General Standard and why is he messing with the artist fees?
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Jojamela Soon
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I usually pay between 2-3K unless someone wants a specific performer and is willing to cover the fee difference.
I put on an average of 13 shows a week, thankfully a couple of them are tips only (tho I do try to tip them between 500-1K)
I'd pay more, but would have to cut way down on the number of shows so it's a dilemma.
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Davin Romano
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thank you Norris... I like that you described the differences as you did.. What I am wondering, is if say an artist in the 2-5k range, should I assume they will draw a small crowd as well as what I bring? I'd never ask a performer to bring their own crowd, but an extra 10 people would be nice if all my promotions brought another 10-15 even.
and hexx, thanks also, I do think it is a worthy spend to provide entertainment. As with what I've done with the arts and various galleries, its fun to me just meeting people around the world with like interests.
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Zak Claxton
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| Davin Romano wrote: | | What I am wondering, is if say an artist in the 2-5k range, should I assume they will draw a small crowd as well as what I bring? |
No. There is not a specific/exact correlation between what artists charge and how many people they bring.
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Norris Shepherd
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Hey Davin.. and um.. sorry for calling you 'David' in last post.. 
I really don't think you should assume/presume much of anything. Some artists charge more and should charge less, and some probably charge less and should charge more.
Best bet would be to check the artist in question out at one or two of their shows. The odds are if they have 40+ people at all their shows.. .they will draw people wherever they play.
If they have 4 or 5 people at consecutive shows... then that's probably what they draw... or they booked in a slot where there are 35 live music shows at that time.
Or references.. talk to people who follow live music, or venue owners. Those would probably best be private discussions though.. not for the public forum.
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ka-klick
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Norris is right on there, on all this. I'd say someone commanding $L10k + should be expected to bring a real crowd with them (most times). Other than that level I'd say overall that most folks who've been established will draw a few in from fans/LME/other groups, but it really can be all over the map depending on many factors:
1. Day/Night - Time Slot
If either SL concurrency is low or the events slots are bursting, it can be tough to draw a crowd - probably plan on low attendance if you have the bad luck to be up against one (or more) of the $L10k + crowd.
2. SL "Weather" (has to do a bit w/ concurrency). If folks can't TP to your location it's going to be a slim night.
3. Fatigue / Flavor of the Month: There's a sort of honeymoon for new folks, and the ups and downs sort of smooth out after a while, but if you're not the NKOTB sometimes it's an uphill battle, even if you try and keep it fresh.
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ticious
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I have a biz partner who once summed this up VERY well. The fee paid for any given gig is nothing more than a reflection of the relative bargaining skills of the musician (or their manager) as compared to the bargaining skills of the venue representative. Add to this the fact that 'base' fees or 'average' fees change constantly and any FAQ purporting to suggest reasonable fee amounts becomes pretty worthless.
At the end of the day, Davin, you need to determine what your budget is and who you want to stage (best way to do this is by attending shows, especially some of the big open mics and showcases) and go from there.
Many of the artists you choose will be happy to play for the fees you can afford, even if what you can afford is substantially less then they normally ask so don't be afraid to counter. Many artists will not feel they can play for less than their nornmal fee and this is why they established it a the level they did. BOTH are valid and honest positions and should be respected. Some muscians may be rude or condescending to you when you say their fee is outside your budget. Forget them and move on, they are a tiny minority (and from what I've seen, the kind of folks who aren't respectful in negotiations don't stick around long). Make you booking and fee decisions based soley on your budget and your goals for your venue and I guarantee you, if you run your show well (post proper notices, provide good atmosphere, etc.), you will fill your line up with quality acts.
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Silas Scarborough
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I'm pretty much of a pinko on this as I charge from each according to ability. Sometimes the venue owner is just being an audience member who wants to hear me play and couldn't care less if anyone else shows up. They just like me to come in once in a while, get all nuts, blow some stuff up, and after that they can get back to some gigs with with people who actually know some songs
I don't guarantee anyone's going to show up and I do warn the venue owner they probably won't. I know it's kind of trite to be deliberately non-commercial but that's not really what I'm doing. In any case, I'll never draw like, say, Max Kleene. (I have no idea what he makes; I just know he packs the crowd right in.)
Part of fee structure goes back to splitting tipjars as certainly there's an effect from whatever you pump back into the venue either through your scintillating wit, charm, and stunning good lucks and/or through lindens kicked back to the venue owner from tips. (Read tipjar threads before going off on that tangent. It is a long one.)
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Davin Romano
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thx Silas, I'll read up on that too... and thx Ticious for the friendly valuable advice as well.. I've spent 2 months now going to shows and hunting down the styles I'd like to get, and I built my venue for myself to dj and friends to hang out in for a while until I get things really finger out as far as my budget and what I'd like vs what I can do.
this forum is most helpful! and I'm half regretting building a genre specific venue bc there's a ton of talent here that I'd love to have grace my little wooden stage!
Cant' wait to see the slmc isle!
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Fyrm Fouroux
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| Davin Romano wrote: | | this forum is most helpful! and I'm half regretting building a genre specific venue bc there's a ton of talent here that I'd love to have grace my little wooden stage! |
Hi Davin, I'm a musician and I think this thread has had a bunch of wonderful contributions from some extremely knowledgeable and interesting people. There is absolutely nothing I could possibly add to what has been said.
However, at the risk of a minor topic veer, I wondered if you could give us a hint as to how the architecture of your build hones itself to the genre of your choice. I'm not trying to be facetious, but I started thinking about padded walls and soft mattresses for the heavy metal head-bangers, or sails and crows nests for the shantymen - then I told myself to stop being silly 
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Davin Romano
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lol Fyrm... I built a place called Steamers Jazz Bar, after one of my fave RL hangouts in Orange County, California.. the decor was done completely in B&W, even the stage graced with an upright piano, drumset, and double bass... all the art work, furniture, etc.. it was really fun to build/design and I've had a ton of compliments from people already.
But I also like to DJ electro music, so I need to build another place I can do that.. lol or work at other venues
I guess I dont have to limit myself to jazz, I also would like some blues artists, and even some old 50's rock could get away with the atmosphere. i unno, am I limiting myself by doing this? It sprouted from a B&W dream one night.. lol
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Silas Scarborough
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Keeping a tight focus on the type of material at a venue can be a good thing. Sunset Jazz is an example in which it's almost exclusively light jazz (as opposed to bebop). It was a clever move as it built up jazz acts in SL while at the same time establishing that venue as the place to hear it.
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ticious
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| Silas Scarborough wrote: | | . . . Sunset Jazz is an example in which it's almost exclusively light jazz (as opposed to bebop). It was a clever move as it built up jazz acts in SL while at the same time establishing that venue as the place to hear it. |
Well this is quite true, many of the acts I've seen at Sunset Jazz have not been Jazz at all, so it's entirely possible to develop a rep for one specific core genre by focusing primarily on that genre without wholly limiting yourself to it.
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Tabitha_Oxide
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Drinks are always too expensive in the venues,
I suggest save some coin and get toasted in the lot first.
Puff Puff Pass Dammit! You bogart!
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Doubledown Tandino
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My fee structure:
If I wanna play for free shows: I play for free, and donate a chunk to the venue.
SL only shows, hangout and party: free to $3000L an hour
SL only shows promotional, sales, or corporate: $3000L to $6000L an hour
RL companies in SL: $10,000L and up, which also comes with my promotions package.
Disclaimer: Doubledown's rates are subject to change prior to agreement based on anything and everything including how cool you are.
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Fyrm Fouroux
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| Silas Scarborough wrote: | | Keeping a tight focus on the type of material at a venue can be a good thing. Sunset Jazz is an example in which it's almost exclusively light jazz (as opposed to bebop). It was a clever move as it built up jazz acts in SL while at the same time establishing that venue as the place to hear it. |
I think a pub called 'The Bell-Ringers Arms' might appeal (geddit) to all those closet tintinnabulationists in SL
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