| Archive for SLMC Second Life® Music Community Forum |
| Silas Scarborough |
Sucky Rock LyricsWhen I write that rock lyrics suck perhaps it's perceived that I'm bitter about not being much of a guitar player and never getting a call from MTV. That's not it at all and it's a question that fascinates me. If the thread dies, so be it but at least you'll know where I had hoped it would go.Leslie Gore gave us some of the most irritating song lyrics that have ever been written. Teen angst at it's pukiest nadir. Neil Sedaka gave us schmaltz at rate that would stun the hacks who write romance novels. And they were geniuses. If I played "It's My Party" right now, even if you haven't heard it before, that song will stick in your head. The same is true for pretty much anything Neil Sedaka wrote. So how can this be. Maybe you're nodding wisely right now and thinking, man, it's the hook. Maybe so but how can you know that. I'd really get off on it if people talked about musical stuff like this. Maybe it's something that belongs on a different site but it seems appropriate. Djai has his holiday collaboration he does every year and that's cool but what about the rest of the year. Maybe it'd be an interesting experiment to write some deliberately bad lyrics and pose that as a 'class' exercise to see if it's really possible to take some utter tripe and make it rock. I'm not being facetious. The phenomenon really fascinates me. |
||||
| Bibi Ballinger |
"It's the beat" and "You can dance to it". That's what the TV dance shows audiences used to rate songs on. I don't know what people do now. The songs that stick in my head now aren't about either. It's a good question because we still have a huge gap in what SL musicians are creating and what gets to market.
What is it that music producers are looking for that is going to put dollars in their wallet?? Maybe it isn't about the music at all anymore. Is it a persona that can be developed into tabloid news and t-shirt and jewelry sales? If so then there will never be much RL success of SL artists unless SL gets left behind. What's the intangible that links SL to RL success that we're missing?? |
||||
| EvaMoon |
It's the knife in the heart of lyricists everywhere.
Repetition and simplicity are probably key. (Do you know ANYONE who can't sing the Batman theme?) I remember reading a short bio of the guy who wrote The Bunny Hop. He actually had a long, interesting career as a songwriter, musician and band leader for many, many years. But for the rest of his life it was "YOU wrote the BUNNY HOP?!?" Be careful what you wish for. |
||||
| Silas Scarborough |
To me, asking what producers like is a different question. My example on this one is "Mona" by Quicksilver Messenger Service. The lyrics are unbelievably stupid but I've loved the song for years. "Mona" had a beat and you could damn sure dance to it.
After some years of being rock big shots, they cranked out a tune called "Fresh Air" which is one of the most heavily-waxed pieces of pseudo-rock that ever went out on FM. It's got all the ingredients as it had a great beat, you could dance to it and the lyrics were horrendous (i.e. have another hit of....fresh air....) Whether you blame the band, the producers or both for devolving that band is impossible to figure. Listening to them doing "Mona," it's pretty difficult to believe any of them would dream of doing "Fresh Air." Another example is Steve Allen doing a dramatic reading of "Hound Dog" sometime. You'll be crying laughing. I have no interest in fighting anyone. I'm sorry it may appear that way. If I fight anyone, I lose even if I win. I do not want to fight. My friend Ticious advises me that what I see as sarcasm for comic effect is frequently perceived as combative. I have a fairly good understanding of pain and I'm not going to explain that at all except to say that the last thing I want is to cause it in anyone else. |
||||
| ticious |
My big brother once said to me "once a bubble gummer, always a bubble gummer." And of course, since he was the epitome of cool (I was 14, he was 17 and had a band!!!), I was crushed. These days, I'm proud to say, I'm still a bubble gummer!
The reason bubble gum pop works is simplicity and lyrics that any heartsick teenie bopper can relate to and sing along with. Heartsick teenie boppers were the main record buyers back in the day when they still sold records. Anyway, that's my theory. Where the meaning is totally obvious, he/she cheated and broke my heart, well, everyone can relate to that without even thinking about it and lots of folks just don't like to think. On the flip side, bad lyrics are often vague lyrics and that lets folks read stuff in without really trying. There may be nothing there at all, but that makes it like a blank canvas which you can paint with whatever happens to be on your mind as you listen. So here's the question . . . . why are you writing lyrics? Yeah, it would be GREAT to express your artistry and get rich at the same time. But if you have to choose one or the other, which is it gonna be? Eva Moon, don't you DARE change a thing!!!! /me wanders off humming about being a millionairia with cash from Nigeria. . . . |
||||
| Sanity Inn |
" Ba ba ba baby , you ain't seen nothing yet " BTO.... the story i heard on this tune was the singer studdered, wasn't even supposed to be on the album, but look what happenned to it,,
" Da da da da" need I say more lolol Sanity Inn " Logics rules, emotion wins " |
||||
| Silas Scarborough |
I really don't think so as the capability of lyricists goes over a very wide spectrum. I doubt there would be any damage to someone who writes witty lyrics in anything schmaltzy as probably the material would play to a very different audience. I don't see "It's My Party" playing to the same people who would get off on "Light the Fucking Candle" but how do I know. I don't think anyone understands this phenomenon very well and I can't believe it's so simple as tripe vs wit as in my example. |
||||
| Silas Scarborough |
I agree and I'm sure they'd die before they'd call themselves teenie boppers today but Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus have made zillions of dollars playing to them. In the previous entry I was thinking that it can't be as simple as wit vs tripe but maybe it really is. As to your question, I don't write lyrics out of purpose but rather out of revelation. There's no religious epiphany in that; it's simply that I have no explanation. Someone said regarding another couple, "Their trouble is they've always had too much or not enough." That got me scribbling and, whammo, hard rock Silas has a teenie bopper heartthrob tune and it became the song that for a long time was the best known to audiences in SL when I played. So, no, I don't write for money and my checking account will prove that quite handily. I'll have a thought in mind but mostly I love the color of the vocal instrument and sometimes it doesn't even matter what's being said. As evidence I offer the attendance at opera when people don't know the language of the performance. Although it may look like I'm trying to denigrate lyrics, I'm not. Isn't it an amazing thing that someone can be so moved by an opera without knowing at all what the singers have to say. Seems to me this relates to the heartbroken teenie bopper as people identify so strongly with the singer in each genre. In one, the lyrics don't mean a whole lot and in the other people don't even know what they are. There's something to be understood in this but it's not immediately clear to me what it might be. |
||||
| torben asp |
In an opera you do have an extra add-in, namely the scenery and the acting which is helping you getting in the right mood.
At most operas you get a little story about the play because many people attend the opera for the first time...so they are already put in the mood from the beginning. An opera is like a 3 hour long musicvideo trying to illustrate the meaning and the feel of the music on stage and in the play. **I guess only Michael Jackson would try to make that long a musicvideo...heh** There's lots of beautiful music in the operas and the audience is just waiting for that famous aria or that lovely piece. When they don't know the lyrics or understand them it just makes the voice of the singer an extra instrument as we all know...and with the scenery and acting it creates the moving feeling inside. There is some magic in music as how to the chords are put together and how melodies are composed which makes the lyrics kinda secondary. It's the music/ composition that digs into us and makes us feel. You can then turn it around and use very basic chords if you want the lyrics to be the primary messenger to peoples minds whether its protest songs/ sing a-longs and you just want people to move their butts on the dancefloor singing: "Da Da Da - Ich Liebe Dich nicht, Du liebst Mich nicht - Aha"... Which we often experience in rl and sl. -TA- |
||||
| Silas Scarborough |
For my music, I can't agree at all that lyrics are secondary. In fact, I trialed a recent tune on my blog and people were saying don't screw with it but it was screaming to me that it needed lyrics. Here's the beauty part: when I added nothing but a lyric track to the song, people did not recognize it was the same song. I'm not exaggerating at all and Bibi can corroborate as she was one of them. How does that work?? |
||||
| ticious |
When Nad is working on tracks, I often don't recognize what the song is until I he either sings to them or he tells me. When he tells me, then the words come to my head and it all falls into place. Now it must be borne in mind that I'm talking about pop songs here for the most part. He has some great instrumentals that I recognize right off. As do several other SL musicians.
/me wanders off back to the party pondering this. |
||||
| hexx |
Man, I was in France when that hit the charts. Every boombox played the tune and there were lotsa boomboxes around, 'cause the weather was excellent. |
||||
| Nad |
Long ago aliens came here, captured some apes and bent their (the apes) chromosomes a modicumagement enough to give them some slight intelligence. These workers were used primarily to do agricultural tasks. They were trained to respond to repetitive sing-song note sequences and lyrics. The worker apes responded quite well to them. They went about their tasks happily, and eventually learned to mimic (this is what apes do best maybe) the "catchy" tunes that captivated their attention. Knowing this will help you write music that captivates an audience. A tin foil hat will protect you from being captivated. | ||||
| torben asp |
Must..........buy..........tin foil....... 
|
||||
| Silas Scarborough |
Yah but any tune is an instrumental if you take the vocal line and play it on something else. I'm betting if he played the vocal line rather than sang it, you'd still recognize the song but you may or may not if you only hear the chords. I'd also bet if he only played the vocal line or the melody line from whichever instrument and didn't play anything else, it'd be "Name That Tune" and you'd get it in five notes or less. |
||||
| hexx |
Considering that we, by defintion, always experience only a fraction of what there is to experience, lyrics about tiny details can be ever so cool.
Check this tune, for instance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zpEVXWrF20 |
||||
| Toby Lancaster |
Now you're talking hexx! "O Caroline" is one of my all time favourite songs. Come to think of it, the whole "Canterbury Scene" (Soft Machine, Caravan, Hatfield & The North, Matching Mole etc.) seemed to be based as much on mundane everyday lyrics, as great musicianship.
I think I'll have to wait a long time for another thread mentioning one of my heroes Robert Wyatt, so at the risking of going OT, can I sneak this in as being an example of something that is excellent in many ways? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cWq3mIp4cU Robert also demonstrates the use of voice as an instrument as against a means of conveying lyrics. Sorry for the jazzy digression....back to Sucky Rock Lyrics.... Toby |
||||
| DjaiSkjellerup |
But to take the digression a little further while you are looking at Robert Wyatt on youtube have a look for his cover of the amazing Elvis Costello song "Shipbuilding" which I have been working on to include in my "one cover version per show" policy. It's only this song that I know Robert Wyatt for.
This is a deep, thoughtful and overtly political lyric which I think is one of the best ever written (certainly Costello rated it as his best ever) and there it is in a canon of work of an artist you have cited for doing the opposite. I am not pointing this out to say you are wrong but just that I think the best artists employ both approaches to lyrics. |
||||
| Silas Scarborough |
This thread is unjackable...goes wherever anyone wants to take it. |
||||
| Silas Scarborough |
"Goon Squad" by Costello is something I like a lot and for pretty much the same reasons. I've got to say I liked the melody before I ever knew what the words were, tho. It's got a good beat and you can dance to it. I'm not trying to trivialize it as what I'm seeing in me is that hook has to be there and I'll probably never get to the lyrics if it's not. |
||||
| ticious |
Great observation! Even speaking as the resident bubble gummer here, I have to say the same. If the music doesn't catch me first, the lyrics never will because I won't listen long enough. Not even if it's by Barry Freekin' Manilow. That said, I really enjoyed both of those YouTubes. |
||||
| torben asp |
Me agree 
-TA- |