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Zak Claxton
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 2008
Location: Podul/33/243/154/
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 Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| EvaMoon wrote: | | But the original question was from someone who wants to jam with other musicians in SL - that would be the VLB/Ninjam model. |
Right. I was responding to Silas, not the original poster. 
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Silas Scarborough
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 1178
Location: Rhode Island
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: And NinJams aren't in real time |
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| the Professor wrote: | t's "live" in that they can't stop the tape like at a recording session.
But it's not live in that it's asychronous and each successive stream (to the next player) is like a background tape.
On the other hand, one can change the tempo.... but there would have to be agreement as to who's going to do it . . . the 4th person can't . .. but at some point, they can play a "break" and the first person (usually the drummer or the bass) could lay down a new tempo to continue the song with... |
No, no, no! That isn't how it works. What you've described is the metajam which is kind of the Abbott and Costello of music in which the person at the start of the stream is the 'straight man' and can't hear anything anyone else does. It gets layered up as it goes from player to player and finally gets streamed into SL by the last one.
Ninjam is quite a different thing and each of the players can hear each of the others but it's not as freeing as it sounds. Check it out at ninjam.org. Note the Mac version of the code is in alpha.
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vonjohin
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
Location: Nashville, TN
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: And NinJams aren't in real time |
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Ouch. That sounds dreadfully complicated for live performance use. My RL experience stems from playing with folks whose work led to the "jam band" genre, with wild, even excessively long improvisational playing, songs linking from one to the other, etc. I guess you could do that with Ninjam, but you'd have to take the "jam" part out.
If Silas has it right, maybe its not as restricting as that, but it still sounds like the concept is there but the execution is still limited. There has to be latency, and I am guessing that only one person submits the final sound source to Nicecast, etc. I want to find out there, so I'm going to check out their site. I'd love to have a harp player blowing with me on some shows from far away. 
| the Professor wrote: | Ninjam is about half way between a multi-track recording and a jam.
Each player is by themselves, with the feed of what's been over-layed via the sequential efforts of each of the previous players as the bed over which they add their part.
It's "live" in that they can't stop the tape like at a recording session.
But it's not live in that it's asychronous and each successive stream (to the next player) is like a background tape.
On the other hand, one can change the tempo.... but there would have to be agreement as to who's going to do it . . . the 4th person can't . .. but at some point, they can play a "break" and the first person (usually the drummer or the bass) could lay down a new tempo to continue the song with... |
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the Professor
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 122
Location: Peoria, Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: how their site describes ninjam. |
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Apologies if I explained it wrongly . . . I've not used it, but thought that I understood this passage. Apparently not.
"Since the inherent latency of the Internet prevents true realtime synchronization of the jam2, and playing with latency is weird (and often uncomfortable), NINJAM provides a solution by making latency (and the weirdness) much longer.
Latency in NINJAM is measured in measures, and that's what makes it interesting.
The NINJAM client records and streams synchronized intervals of music between participants. Just as the interval finishes recording, it begins playing on everyone else's client. So when you play through an interval, you're playing along with the previous interval of everybody else, and they're playing along with your previous interval. If this sounds pretty bizarre, it sort of is, until you get used to it, then it becomes pretty natural. In many ways, it can be more forgiving than a normal jam, because mistakes propagate differently. "
http://www.ninjam.com/
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Edward Lee Lamoureux
http://slane.bradley.edu/com/faculty/lamoureux/website2/
ell@bradley.edu; AIM: dredleelam: SL:Professor Beliveau;http://www.thesixtyone.com/theprofessor/footprint/ |
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Silas Scarborough
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 1178
Location: Rhode Island
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Professor, much more like it!
There's potential in Ninjam but metajamming is a complete waste of electrons.
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Jojamela Soon
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 826
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:00 am Post subject: Re: A SL band: is it possible? |
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| attorianzo wrote: | I would try to play my bass guitar here in SL with other people..just to try and have fun..Is it possible to do that?
In SL I'm "Marco Zeffirelli" |
I spoke with Marco inworld and referred him to this forum, He didn't say it in his original question, but one of the things he asked is if it was possible to jam with other musicians using voice (not streaming)
Have any of you tried it? does it work? I was thinking along the lines of a back porch jam, not necessarily a concert.
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Norris Shepherd
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 304
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: |
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I went to a Christmas Carol sing along in SL with people singing by voice... it wasn't pretty. 
I know some people who have sung, played using voice.. but it doesn't work real well... very hard to get synched up, and what each individual will hear will be different... |
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Jambalaya
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 238
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:20 am Post subject: |
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The thing is that voice chat is still streaming audio, it's just implemented differently. But, the inherent latency of internet travel is enough to throw off the timing of two people trying to play together, no matter the means.
Or, in English: there's still a delay, even in voice chat.  |
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vonjohin
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
Location: Nashville, TN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Looks like 2.5 years since Ninjam was "alpha released" for Mac OS X. I'm thinking I'm not going to put that on my system. I guess if I want a harp blowing on my stuff, I'll have to invite somebody to my home studio and put them on a microphone. |
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Silas Scarborough
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 1178
Location: Rhode Island
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| vonjohin wrote: | | Looks like 2.5 years since Ninjam was "alpha released" for Mac OS X. I'm thinking I'm not going to put that on my system. I guess if I want a harp blowing on my stuff, I'll have to invite somebody to my home studio and put them on a microphone. |
It's ugly but it works as some, maybe all, of VLB's members use it on Macs.
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My Web site is at myducksoup.com |
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