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Zak Claxton
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 2008
Location: Podul/33/243/154/
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 Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Well, here's a whole other perspective...
Ever tip a venue while no one is playing? I do. I'll drop by just to hang out and chat with folks, and drop some Lindies into the jar for the hell of it. I figure they can use the coin, and it'll be a nice surprise for them if they notice their balance has gone up a smidgen.
That's what I'm talking about when I say I don't make a correlation between the venue and who's playing there. It's irrelevant to me. And that's just me; I don't preach my way to anyone else. My feel is that supporting artists and venues are two different things, both important.
I also tip art galleries and such, even if I don't love the art. See? 
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vonjohin
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
Location: Nashville, TN
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Right, Ticious. I don't see how my comments have been confused here, seeing that you do as I do as well. I will also stay longer than three minutes to see if things are going to get better. Maybe the act is nervous, maybe there is something going on to make it shaky, they are new, etc. After a few songs, if things stay out of tune, they can't hit a note, or even worse they sing off pitch over one poorly chosen backing karaoke track after another, yep, I'm politely out of there. No tips for anyone.
Yep, I'll come back to that venue and check it out again, several times, if I come in once and find an act I don't personally like. However, if I come back to any venue several times and each time I come in there its the same kind of thing, well, I ain't gonna keep coming back. Who would?
The thread was about tipping, and my comments about how and when and why I tip and to whom should be read in context and understood to be on a case by case basis, as they were presented to begin with.
I think this, in context of the original question, comes down to everyone's personal philosophy on tipping, to whom and for what reasons.
Mine are simple: I tip the acts that I enjoy, and during that same show, I tip the venue. Just as I won't patronize a club in real life by buying dinner and drinks if I walk in and find the music not to my liking, no matter how good the food and decor, I won't pay tribute to the venue in SL in the same circumstances.
| ticious wrote: | Von, I would assume if you found the performer that objectionable, you would spend less then about three minutes at the show before poofing out. I wouldn't expect someone who spent that short of a time at my venue to tip, so maybe I actually am with you, I dunno.
But don't be so quick to judge the judgment of the venue owner. I book the acts my fans wanna hear as well as acts I personally enjoy (yes, some venues have their own set of fans  ). But if you come to my place and you don't like the show, I don't really expect ya to hang out for the venue with your sound turned off. By all means, poof out to a show you'll enjoy (that's what I do, well, not when the show's at my venue, but you get my point, I'm sure) and don't feel obliged to tip either me or the musician. But I do hope you'll come back for a different act at a different time. |
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vonjohin
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
Location: Nashville, TN
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Completely different issue. I've tipped builds with a tip jar out just because I was impressed with what they've built, venue or not.
Your grasshopper wants to know whacho mean you don't preach your way to anyone else. What else you just been doing?
| Zak Claxton wrote: | Well, here's a whole other perspective...
Ever tip a venue while no one is playing? I do. I'll drop by just to hang out and chat with folks, and drop some Lindies into the jar for the hell of it. I figure they can use the coin, and it'll be a nice surprise for them if they notice their balance has gone up a smidgen.
That's what I'm talking about when I say I don't make a correlation between the venue and who's playing there. It's irrelevant to me. And that's just me; I don't preach my way to anyone else. My feel is that supporting artists and venues are two different things, both important.
I also tip art galleries and such, even if I don't love the art. See? |
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Zak Claxton
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 2008
Location: Podul/33/243/154/
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| vonjohin wrote: | | Completely different issue. I've tipped builds with a tip jar out just because I was impressed with what they've built, venue or not. |
There you go! Stop right there; you got what I'm sayin'.
| Quote: | | Your grasshopper wants to know whacho mean you don't preach your way to anyone else. What else you just been doing? |
Saying what *I* do, in the same way I might say I like pistachio ice cream. I won't love you any less if you say you like tutti-fruity. 
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vonjohin
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
Location: Nashville, TN
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Well, unless you tell me my logic is wrong for liking tutti fruity.
| Zak Claxton wrote: | | vonjohin wrote: | | Completely different issue. I've tipped builds with a tip jar out just because I was impressed with what they've built, venue or not. |
There you go! Stop right there; you got what I'm sayin'.
| Quote: | | Your grasshopper wants to know whacho mean you don't preach your way to anyone else. What else you just been doing? |
Saying what *I* do, in the same way I might say I like pistachio ice cream. I won't love you any less if you say you like tutti-fruity. |
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Zak Claxton
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 2008
Location: Podul/33/243/154/
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| vonjohin wrote: | | Well, unless you tell me my logic is wrong for liking tutti fruity. |
Nope! You can have a triple-scoop, and it won't bug me in the slightest.
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vonjohin
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
Location: Nashville, TN
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Well when you say somebody's logic is flawed, it comes across like they don't think the right way, and that your following example would be the correct logic that was not flawed. So maybe it did bug you?
Nevertheless, this issue is dead for me now. I've once again managed to dig a hole to climb out of by telling people my opinion, watching it get twisted and misunderstood or taken personally when it wasn't directed at anyone, and I'm tried of digging today. No more bickering for me about something so silly anyway. Everyone tips differently in SL and in RL.
Want to have some fun? Troll Craigslist's Rant and Rave section in any city and post about tipping. Heck, just READ things already on their about tipping, its up there with politics and religion as the most heated discussion topics you'll ever seen on that site. Why should this be any different?
| Zak Claxton wrote: | | vonjohin wrote: | | Well, unless you tell me my logic is wrong for liking tutti fruity. |
Nope! You can have a triple-scoop, and it won't bug me in the slightest. |
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Jojamela Soon
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 826
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: How much to tip? |
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Von,
I think it was pretty obvious that your comment on the judging abilities of venue owners was directed at venue owners, I'm a venue owner, ergo your comment was directed at me, (not me personally of course- I do understand that). All I was trying to say is that people judge musicians by different standards. Standards, tastes, likes, dislikes vary by the individual, something what may not be up to par in your mind may very well be wonderful to someone else.
I do disagree with you, I don't think that the majority of people judge a venue based on the musicians that play there, if they did I wouldn't have the fan group that I have, I wouldn't have the same people coming back all the time no matter who was playing and I wouldn't have the consistent income from those same people who help me to continue to do what I do.
That's what I was trying to say in my earlier response to the question in your post , simply that I disagree with your blanket statement that | Quote: | | The quality of their work is directly tied to their judgment in booking an act, isn't it? |
And I do find it insulting to assume or accuse or imply that any venue owner has bad judgment simply based on one's difference in musical taste.
Your post in response to mine was most definitely directed at me personally: | Quote: | | Jo, do you not agree that the quality of the act booked reflects the judgment of the venue operator? |
....(snip)... | Quote: | Jojamela, indeed, the quality of their work is directly tied to the judgment of the venue owner for booking them and in those cases I ain't tipping anyone.
Do you book acts that fit that bill? |
I responded again that I disagree and why. What I don't understand is your reply to that posting, and I'm sorry you don't realize the condescending attitude towards me that it portrays. I've tried very hard to make sure that my posts reflect my own thoughts on the subject without allowing them to become personal or sarcastic. If I came across that way I do apologize.
Very simply stated, I disagree with you, that doesn't make you a bad person, or wrong or anything like that. I simply disagree, I don't think that people judge me or my venue simply based on the acts that I book, I think they judge me based on the work that I've done and that I do every day to bring music to SL.
In response to your last posting, no, I don't judge a venue by the artist that is playing on their stage. I judge it based on how hard they are working to make the venue a pleasant place to be. I don't do it in real life either. We have a local bar that we hang out at, they have live musicians, sometimes they're good, sometimes they're bad, but we always enjoy the atmosphere and buy the same number of drinks
| vonjohin wrote: | Now Jo, you don't think I directed an insulting comment to you personally, do you? Really? Come on. Maybe you're reading way too much into what I said and personalizing it. I'm hoping I don't get an post now from some knight in white satin lancing me for insulting you and Ticious, when I've not done anything of the sort.
People will judge you and your venue on the acts you are booking. You do it yourself in real life, everyone does.
If you find that insulting, I'm sorry. I think its the reality of how the real world and the virtual world is and how it works. We are known by the company we keep. Venues are known by the acts they book, and in turn, their management is judged that way by the public. Good, bad or indifferent. No reason to find human nature insulting. |
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Nad
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 416
Location: at my puter.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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I thought this thread was gonna be about how much you need to tip me dammit. |
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Jojamela Soon
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 826
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
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