SLMC

Demure Tones · Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 4

I need some help "deciphering" the meaning of this as it pertains to using their material in Second life:

"All music rights are managed by SACEM and MCPS. All musical material on this website is re-recorded and does not use in any form the original music or original vocals or any feature of the original recording.
Without permission, all uses other than home and private use are forbidden."

That's from www.karaoke-version.com Embarassed

Thanks!

Silas Scarborough · Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 1219 Location: Rhode Island

ticious · Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 2114 Location: Chicago

My guess (which is based on experience reading tax and financial service compliance regulations) would be that you'd have a helluva fight for two reasons. The entity suing you would have more jingle for starters. For finishers, they would argue, probably successfully, that the word and is inclusive. So the only allowed uses are home AND private use, meaning you have to be at home (though you'd probably get away with being in any private home, say your buddy's house) and the stream has to be private.

Your only argument would have to be from the point of view that the audience (i.e. the folks listening in on the other end) are members of a private club or organization or just your friends and it's a private, for members only party. Of course, if you get paid anything for your performance, you'll have a kinda tough time unless you can convince the court that Second Life is an organization requiring membership thereby making the thing 'private', though I'm not sure how that payment would fit into the argument. . . you'd have to call it a gift or gratuity, but that might be pretty tough to cram down the courts throat whilst they're still choking on the private club thing.

But back to Silas's first point. . . LL wants very much (and I don't blame them) to be on the up and up and in the clear when and if this *stuff* hits the fan (and btw, don't look to them to support you in your assertion that Second Life is a private club requiring membership). The chances of that happening without there being REAL money involved (not the pittances we've all be squabbling over here in the forum) are kinda slim though definitely not impossible if someone wants to come along and set an example.
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Silas Scarborough · Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 1219 Location: Rhode Island

Demure, so you see the problem! BUT it's not as much of a problem as it seems. As with the 55 mph speed limit, people just ignore stupid laws so they're 'stealing' music from every place on the globe. The majority of acts in SL would be busted by RIAA if it ever came to town as no-one, to my knowledge, is paying any royalties. So you've got to ask yourself what's the chance of the RIAA coming to town and the answer is they probably never will unless the pay scales increase radically. RIAA is going to go where the money is and there sure as hell isn't any in SL.
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Jambalaya · Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 238

I am not a lawyer, yada yada, but I have studied copyright laws, as well as doing a lot of research on the subject for my job. Honestly, I don't think the argument ticious mentioned would fly at all.

First, SL could not considered be a "private club", because anyone is free to join from anywhere in the world, for free.

Anyway, the use of the word "private" does not necessarily mean any private situation. Technically, you'd be in violation if you used these in a private social club too. "Home and private use" is phrased that way so that you could not sell admission to an event in your home, i.e. making public use of your home would not absolve you from liability just because you're using them "at home".

Also, once you have uploaded the songs to a streaming server, they have left your home & are on an international network, so you wouldn't be able to credibly argue that it was private use anyway.

Digital music laws in this country, especially regarding streaming, are very specific and very strict. The only thing in your favor here is being under the radar. If you want to be on the up-and-up, you need to contact the company and get permission to use the files, or find files that you can use.

Jambalaya · Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 238

And, to underscore the point - this is from their terms of service (their emphasis):

vonjohin · Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 458 Location: Nashville, TN

I'd say "Broadcast and Transmit" pretty much cover it. Now, does it stop anyone here singing to backing tracks? Nope. Not so far.

All of the legal issues with public performance licensing are so far just flying barely under the radar. Its coming.

Does it stop anyone singing cover songs that are not public domain? Nope. Not to far. It doesn't stop DJ's streaming recordings, or club streaming their own iTunes collections instead of using a licensed web radio stream. We've been very lucky in SL, so far.

Mark my words, at some point, some yahoo with a law degree and a barely-passed bar exam is going to cause us who love, use and perform music in SL all an awful lot of trouble.

I try to do mostly public domain blues when I play, but I can't say everything I do is for certain. If the performing rights organizations didn't make it so expensive and hard to do it, I would love to buy a license, and I spent two days reading what they offer now to see how exactly it fit into the SL concept. I logged off their page scratching my head.

I would love it, frankly, if they went to Linden Lab and offered a virtual busker's license or DJ license, etc for some reasonable and affordable fee. That way the songwriters and others would get their due, and the issue would be resolved. Instead, the music industry folks will probably just screw it up.

Then I thought, hey, I've got big muck-a-muck friends at BMI and ASCAP, maybe I should ask..... then I said, oh hell no.... I'm not gonna be the guy to explain it to them. They'll just come in and screw it up for everyone. Seems some BMI/ASCAP folks are already in SL and even done in-world conferences, at least from their London office (BMI).

Sorry, slightly off-topic reply to your question. Bottom line, every single solitary karaoke track being sung to on SL has that same requirement, yet thus far nobody has been called on the carpet, and the odds of it happening to you are very, very small.

You're more likely to get hammered by BMI, ASCAP, SESAC, etc. before the karaoke company itself ever said, "Hey, that cheesy MIDI-fied, bad-drum, FM-synth general midi version of Another Brick in the Wall sounds exactly like MIDI-fied, bad-drum, FM-synth general midi version OUR cheesy version of Another Brick in the Wall!"

Doubledown Tandino · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:50 am Post subject:

I say just go for it too. What I believe this is pertaining to is a karaoke-host that buys the whole collection of karaoke tunes, and they go out and host karaoke show for money in RL.

Just use the karaoke tunes, sing your tunes.... and don't sell copies of that.
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Silas Scarborough · Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 1219 Location: Rhode Island

Soundcircel Flanagan · Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 393 Location: The Netherlands

im curious what would happen if copyrights firms came busting in ?

Lets asume they do and they pull out the plug on Music.
We could start paying copyrights, but then we need to earn more money on sl. This has to be payed by the venue owners.
Lots of them probally won't, so it slowly dies ( or not so slowly ? )

And then ?

Other bizz, will see the light i guess.
We cant have our Marshall amps, ( guess thats copyrighted too )
we cant wear our levi jeans,
cant buy that cool rolex anymore.
etc.etc.etc.

So we end up half naked, without music, and no objects
( doesnt that sound like logging in ??? )
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