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ticious
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 2114
Location: Chicago
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 Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Jasmine Usher wrote: | | I am debating saying something to her about the tip issue and letting the new musicians know that they could posssibly run into the same thing. |
Jasmine, one thing you might want to let her know is that ANY change in the agreement after the time of the booking is a renegotiation (in the US, we call this a reneg, and someone who renegs on a deal is not a nice or honorable person). I don't mean you should be mean or anything . . . you may really be informing her. I have known some very well meaning venue owners, even some very successful ones, who really just want to put on a fun show who don't see it this way. They don't think of the booking conversation as a business agreement . . . it really is a contractual agreement and should be thought of as such.
Even if they were to make this change before you performed, but still on the day of the show rather than on the day you'd booked it, it would be wrong. When you reserve that block of time for their use, you need to know the terms and the terms mustn't be changed unilaterally. A simple booking slip/notecard exchanged at the time the booking is made can help to reinforce this. The slip does NOT need to be complicated or filled with a bunch of faux legalistic terms. I have a template I'm happy to share with anyone who'd like it.
And also . . . please refer her to this forum. There's no better way to help a new or inexperienced venue owner learn about how things are done (from multiple perspectives  ).
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Jasmine Usher
Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 53
Location: Boston, Mass
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Thanks all for the feedback on how to handle this. I will be interested to hear how the venue reacts when I discuss this with them. There is no reason to be mean about it, it was what it was. The only thing now to do is move forward educate them if they are willing refer them to these forums and keep plugging on my end.
Take care and enjoy the week.
Jas
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vonjohin
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
Location: Nashville, TN
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Notecards. Plain and simple. I just won't do a gig now without them. Upfront, in writing, when the show is, the landmark, the stream info if they want me to use their stream, the amount I get paid and any other details.
Not only does this help my "too many Grateful Dead shows" brain make sure I put the show on my calendar, but it removes any possible misunderstanding when its clearly in writing. I hesitate to call them contracts, though some venues and promoters like to call them that, but they at the least clarify all the facts far in advance.
My profile has: A NOTECARD LABELED WITH THE VENUE & SHOW DATE MUST BE GIVEN TO ME FOR ALL SHOWS FROM ALL PROMOTERS. NO EXCEPTIONS. To check days and for booking fees, schedule and more go to http://www.vonjohin.com.
It finally came to that anyway. No notecard, no gig, no exceptions, even if you've been booking me since I started last July. Otherwise, I end up double-booked, or the venue ends up double-booked, there are misunderstandings, etc., etc. Get it in writing.  |
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Fyrm Fouroux
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 294
Location: North East of England
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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I recently sent out a notice saying I was about to play at a venue, was about to tp over when I got an urgent IM from the venue manager telling me that I was not playing that day and that I had been expected to play the previous week on that day. They had waited for me to show and in the end had found someone to substitute for me. I said that according to my callendar it was the current day I should play. The manager was polite but adamant that I had let them down. I felt sure that was not the case, but I would have had to have accepted it, had I relied solely on the IM booking exchange about a month earlier when it was fixed up. However, as is my normal practice, I had copied and pasted the IM conversation in which the terms of the booking were laid out onto a notecard. I found the notecard within a minute and sent it to the manager. She was able to read both what she had said and what I had said. She immediately apologised profusely. It wasn't a hassle. We quickly booked a date for the following week, and parted the best of friends. But if I had not copied that IM chat onto a notecard and filed it where I knew I could find it again, I would have been in the wrong - I could not have convinced her that I had not let her down.
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ticious
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 2114
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Fyrm Fouroux wrote: | | However, as is my normal practice, I had copied and pasted the IM conversation in which the terms of the booking were laid out onto a notecard. |
This is not necessary. There's an option in your preferences which will automatically create and maintain a log of every conversation you have in SL , whether in IM or open chat, and store it in text files on your computer at the location of your choice. Finding stuff in the general chat file can be a pain (though I often do find this necessary) but the im's are wonderfully organized in individual .txt files by the name of the person or group (yes, group im's are included) with whom you were conversing.
I have a record of every word I've ever typed or read in SL, all nicely date and time stamped and accessible directly from my desktop .
Edited to add, I still insist on a notecard booking slip exchange with the venue owner for every booking I make, just in case they don't log and just to make as sure as possible that we ARE talking about the same date/time (because mistakes happen). But this is for their record keeping and for communication with my biz partners and the musicians themselves rather than for my own records.
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Joy is in the ears that hear
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- The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant |
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vonjohin
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
Location: Nashville, TN
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| What a hassle, Fyrm. This is why I now will only accept bookings from people who will take the time to spell it all out and drop a notecard on me. |
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elvisduffy
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 192
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Zak Claxton
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 2008
Location: Podul/33/243/154/
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ticious wrote: | | I have a record of every word I've ever typed or read in SL, all nicely date and time stamped and accessible directly from my desktop . |
I've been logging chat at all of my shows for months.
Since I have to spend a good 90% of my concentration on playing and singing, I miss a lot of chat stuff that goes by during my show. I tend to glance at chat in-between songs, but I like to know what folks are saying WHILE I'm playing, so sometime after I get off stage I'll take a look at my log. Sometimes I find that a person was very complimentary, and I wasn't able to respond to them, so I'll drop them an IM with thanks sometime later just to let them know I wasn't blowing them off.
Sorry for the side topic. As Ticious would say, /thread jackoff. 
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Jasmine Usher
Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 53
Location: Boston, Mass
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: UPDATE |
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Just wanted to say that i spoke with the hostess and the owner that the venue did contact me, and they worked on revising their policy. No longer are they charging the 10% percent to musicians.
Up with Postitive conflict resolution!
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Doubledown Tandino
Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 1661
Location: RAVELONG @ SLMC Info Island - SIM: Tivona
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