SLMC

Song Clanger · Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 24 Location: Texas

Ok I have had several toneports (currently the keyboard model) for a while now and I have been happy with my settings and nobody has ever said anything to me about "bad" sound for a long time.

I do a search on youtube the other day and find that someone had posted a video of a song I did. The sound was HORRIFYING. There was a flange on the guitar and it sounded thin. The voice was overpowering and compression-laden. This is NOT what I hear in my headphones. I had two people who come to my shows listen to the video and they said "yeah that is about what you normally sound like." TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

So now I am paranoid. I don't know if this was possibly simply a product of how the videomaker was capturing the sound of what. I also wonder if something in my setup is not causing some kind of flanging.

Here it is in a nutshell:

Shure SM58 vocal mic into one of the Mic inputs. I am using the "Modern" preamp setting with some reverb.

1/4 instrument cable from my Takamine active preamp guitars into the instrument jack. Again the "modern" preamp setting with reverb.

I have the analog L and R running out of the Toneport into a 1/8 miniplug into the soundcard (can't get the system to recognize the USB as a valid input for streaming)

Simplecast for streaming.

Two questions:

1) Can others share their toneport settings with me so I can tell if there is something I am doing wrong? Is running the analog line outs doing something weird with the soundcard to add flange?

2) What can I use to capture the stream so that I can evaluate the sound on my own? Right now I am monitoring the toneport with headphones.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AAAARGH I thought I had my sound down!

Norris Shepherd · Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject:

Hey Song.

Here's what i do to sound check. I play a bit and record it on my computer (using Audacity, or whatever). Listen to recording. Adjust if necessary. Repeat.

It's tedious.. but i don't find monitoring with the headphones to be worth very much for me. To overpower the acoustic guitar sound, and my voice inside my head (no comments please. Wink

... i'd just have to crank it to a level I'm not comfortable with.

It could be a setting on your soundcard. Sometimes they have built in effects that may have inadvertently been turned on. Check the soundcard's settings.

If that recording sounds ok... last option might be to connect to your stream... then listen to the stream by going to the web site of your stream server and click 'listen'. Play a bit... then when the stream arrives (30 sec or so later) .. listen, adjust, repeat. I don't see how it could be anything in your streaming software though.... but if it works recorded diretly to your computer... but the stream sounds different.. could be something there.

Hope that helps.

... i've only just started using my toneport to play live with (used twice). And i'm running the line out onto a channel on my mixer. Then my mixer runs into the soundcard of my PC.

Zak Claxton · Joined: 16 Oct 2007 Posts: 2008 Location: Podul/33/243/154/

Song, I don't know if this is the case, but when someone creates a video and posts it, chances are the audio is HIGHLY compressed, and you get typical MP3 artifacts and glitches as a result (swirling sounds like you describe).

Regardless of that, do what Norris says below -- an actual sound check -- just for your peace of mind.
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Norris Shepherd · Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject:

oh yeah... one thing i just though of.

I'm guessing the keyboard toneport still uses the 'Gearbox' software.

a) Open the software up, and make sure that none of the pedals have been inadvertently turned 'on'. A 'phaser'/'flanger' or whatever might be clicked on. (Fable once had an awefull hissing in her system... and it was the compressor in the Gearbox softare that was turned on... and set wonky)

b) The gearbox has two stereo sends. It is possible that the 'monitor' send is sends 3-4 (pre-modified) signal, and that the 'output' is using sends 1-2 which is the modified signal.

BabbleGrabble · Joined: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 589 Location: San Francisco

I have nothing to add (Norris and Zak already covered what I would have said); also, I never did end up getting a TonePort (although they seem very very cool). I'm still trying to get the USB recognition working - haven't had a lot of time to work on it though.
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Song Clanger · Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 24 Location: Texas

Norris, I am indeed using Gearbox. Now spell it out simply for me. What SHOULD the outputs be on? I have never really looked at that. I have all the effects/stompboxes off but haven't really ever understood the output "sends."

Recording before streaming sounds great. I am thinking that they video stream was just particularly compressed and bad on that recording. By the way you can view it at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9MOyi24F3M

I think you will see why im cringing. That is a Takamine TAN77 with cooltube preamp. One of the "warmest" they make in theory.

BabbleGrabble · Joined: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 589 Location: San Francisco

My guess is that the recording is highly compressed, as Zak said, not necessarily reflecting the way it sounds in SL. However, you should check the encoder settings in Simplecast and make sure the output format is at the very least set to 96 kb/s, 44.1 kHz, Stereo - anything lower generally sounds really crappy. I seem to get away with it just fine, set to 128 kb/s.
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Norris Shepherd · Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject:

Heya Song. I'm not near my music computer... but I'll check it later and post a reply. Or remind me in-world if i forget. (always a distinct possibility)

... one thing to mention though, it sounds like you're levels might be a bit hot. I think one thing is to make you are monitoring the final output level from the Streaming application and NOT the toneport or mixer.

The streaming software is really the last point in the chain.. and I've seen some people who only check the level on their mixer, and don't understand why they are still distorting.

Song Clanger · Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 24 Location: Texas

Allrighty. Thought I would give all you helpful folks an update on my situation. It was all user error in the end.

The long and short of it is this--I am running the analog outs from the Toneport to the 1/8 input on my soundcard. I had experimented with choosing the Toneport as the default audio device within the Windows sound control panel and wasn't having any luck having simplecast pick up the signal. So I was running the Toneport into the soundcard but had my Soundblaster selected as the default for playback and record, etc.

THUS, when SL was started up it was causing basically a doubling back of the signal. I had two signals feeding into Simplecast at a slight variation, thus the flange effect.

I found that the solution is to choose Toneport as the default device for everything but to select the Soundblaster as the Record source. This solves the entire problem.

Hey, it only took me several DAYS to figure it out haha.

Hopefully those reading can pick up a tip through my pain:

1) Be careful if, as I have for two long years now, you only monitor your source and don't check the output. See, to me the sound was always great and the levels on Simplecast were good. So I made the assumption it must sound good. Nope, once I monitored the actual output I discovered the flange.

Funny thing is, a couple times people have mentioned that they thought that my voice sounded "echoey" or "doubled." Since everything always sounded good to me I just dismissed it as that slight edge of tinniness streaming can put on the tone. They were trying to tell me of the problem but I never connected it.

Anyway all solved now. Until the next crisis lol.

Thanks everybody!

Norris Shepherd · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject:

I gotta say.. Song sent me a recording he made of him playing and singing.. then opening SL and doing the same, and the difference is incredible.

I had always thought that it was just an effect he was using, and that it was intentional.

Just goes to show the variables. Only true way to hear what the stream is going to sound like, is to listen to the actually stream with SL open!

Can't wait to hear a set of new and improved and un-flanged Song! Smile