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Komuso Tokugawa
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Lyndon
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Pacific Northwest
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 Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Music Immersion |
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| Komuso Tokugawa wrote: | | MoShang Zhao and I have been stealth beta testing our MoKo LoCo Ambient Blues Trance project over the last couple of weeks. |
Ko & Mo, you have, of course, heard of Grace McDunnough's Musimmersion, one of the top ten most influential shows in 07 right?
http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2007/11/musimmersion-ca.html
being that your thread is named as it is, a simple acknowledgement of her groundbreaking event who be in order don'tchathink?
I had to chuckle because I would call it "music immersion" when referring to Grace's show all the time and she would chide me about it 
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Komuso Tokugawa
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: SynaesthAsia |
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Grace's show was very cool, but these two shows are worlds apart in terms of content, technology, and style. The only similarity would be they are both audience "in the round" style stages, but this is a pragmatic decision based on use of the holodeck technology - which is also used widely across the grid...also used extensively by award winning SL Magician Tuna Oddfellow for example.
The project itself is called "SynaesthAsia" by "MoKo LoCo".
http://www.sonicviz.com/music/ima...age&band_id=6&image_id=32
We were playing a test gig and Osprey showed up, decided to make a machinima on the fly and then asked me if it was cool to distribute. After some credit and license tweaks aok.
To be honest I didn't really think about the title...it's Osprey's film and I'm leaving the titles up to the individuals who film our shows as long as the credits/license are adhered to.
The audiovisual tech I originally made well over two years ago in SL
[see front page of Metaverse Messenger 040406 "Art meets Science with SL experiments".] from which I quote:
"The demonstration involved biofeedback, which is scientifically proven to have a powerful, positive effect on a user’s emotional and physical well-being by teaching the user to alter his or her brain activity, brain pressure, muscle tension, heart rate and other critical bodily functions. Dakind Pixel, who attended the celebration, said it was a great show. “To see someone sculpting clouds of color, using their breath, their mind. That was a really wonderful feeling, like digital performance art with real soul,” he said. He said that Tokugawa explained what the various colors of the clouds meant, but added that sound was also involved in the demonstration. “At the peak of Komuso’s energy, i.e., when he was most excited or agitated, the clouds became dark, red and orange and green, and turned into thunder with sound and all,” he explained."
This SL project was itself based on a combination of generative reactive visuals and music performance I researched as part of a Masters Degree in Music and performed live on stage with screen projections in 2002.
Fast forward to the latest incarnation of this long term research project into audiovisual immersiveness - SynaesthAsia in SL.
So to answer your question "being that your thread is named as it is, a simple acknowledgement of her groundbreaking event who be in order don'tchathink?" in terms of this show...no.
Ask Osprey why she called it that!
But, yes, mea culpa for the confusion. I should have used "SynaesthAsia" but the video was damn cool.
I will say however, that grace has been the inspiration for another show I do have in development, more story and representational based along the lines of what she does with her MusImmersion "Interactive Video Clip" concept.
The working title was "BluesImmersion", but I've moved on from there quite a while ago. 
K
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Lyndon
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Pacific Northwest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: SynaesthAsia |
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| Quote: | | Ask Osprey why she called it that! K |
Osprey Therian ... Ok, so ~she's~ the culprit eh? 
There are plenty of thread titles you could've used that would not confuse readers as to which event was being discussed.
Some readers might have been lead to believe that GM's show was somehow involved ...
Good Luck. I can't make it 'cause I'm playing at the times listed. Keep me informed of future dates.
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Last edited by Lyndon on Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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isfullofcrap
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 99
Location: Edloe Island
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Music Immersion |
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I wish I had gone inworld with Windlight that evening, but I was having a crashtastic day and knocked myself out of the sim twice.
Absolutely stunning. Can't want for it to go gold. Hoping more performers go this route and explore the boundaries of the platform and collaboration technologies.
(some snapshots http://secondlife.isfullofcrap.co.../01/the_musimmersion_of_2008.html)
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Komuso Tokugawa
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:18 am Post subject: Re: SynaesthAsia |
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| Lyndon wrote: |
There are plenty of thread titles you could've used that would not confuse readers as to which event was being discussed. |
Sure...as I said "But, yes, mea culpa for the confusion. I should have used "SynaesthAsia" but the video was damn cool. "
btw..google the term "Music Immersion" .. . it predates both Grace and I by a verrrrrrrry long shot, which is no doubt why she branded her project "MusImmersion" to differentiate...but you would have to ask her. I guess that's why she kept berating you!
You could also google "SynaesthAsia", though my little tweak with the Asia part will hopefully distinguish me from all the historical projects using that title as well
| isfullofcrap wrote: | | Absolutely stunning. Can't want for it to go gold. Hoping more performers go this route and explore the boundaries of the platform and collaboration technologies. |
Thanks crap! MoShang has some way cool sounds, and it's way cool being able to jam in real time. Going by some recent demo's Intel just did at CES I'm guessing this is a hot topic from here on in.
See first story and links at http://www.virtualworldsnews.com/2008/01/whos-who-in-vir.html
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Lyndon
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Pacific Northwest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: Re: SynaesthAsia |
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I know that there's nothing malicious going on here Ko just so you know ...
| Quote: | | btw..google the term "Music Immersion" .. . it predates both Grace and I by a verrrrrrrry long shot.. |
On your advice I did just that and I found a "Music Immersion Camp" in Victoria Canada on page five, a music immersion study from So Be Music Inst in Miami and a reference to Immersion Music, an electronic concert series dating back to 2000. So, yes the words "music" and "immersion" are indeed older than us all and the phrase is widely used.
Although, unless google is different in Japan, you and Mo filled the first three pages of my search of the term "Music Immersion" with links to your new video.
You're right it's a damn cool vid and one you should rightly be proud of.
(and, to be fair, a search of "Musimmersion" found Grace's show dominating the first 8 -9 pages .. she -owns- that word .. albeit Crap has gone ahead and tagged your show as "Musimmersion of 2008" .. nice)
It's just an unfortunate, confounding and undoubtedly confusing choice of phrase that just happens to be too similar to another artist's groundbreaking work .. no one's fault. (ok... maybe Osprey's ... KIDDING!!)
We've certainly cleared it up here in SLMC though 
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Komuso Tokugawa
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: Re: SynaesthAsia |
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| Lyndon wrote: | | [b]I know that there's nothing malicious going on here Ko just so you know ... |
Credit where credit is due always...and I reference that above in relation to my BluesImmersion [old working title] project, which has been discussed with a number of people always with direct reference to MusImmersion.
| Lyndon wrote: |
Although, unless google is different in Japan, you and Mo filled the first three pages of my search of the term "Music Immersion" with links to your new video. |
strange...I count ONE reference in the first 5 pages [top of page 2], the top links dominated by MIT media lab which has long done research in this area as http://www.immersionmusic.com/
| Lyndon wrote: |
You're right it's a damn cool vid and one you should rightly be proud of. |
Osprey's video and edit, ty, and one she should be rightly proud of.
| Lyndon wrote: |
It's just an unfortunate, confounding and undoubtedly confusing choice of phrase that just happens to be too similar to another artist's groundbreaking work .. no one's fault. (ok... maybe Osprey's ... KIDDING!!) |
Personally I always called it MusImmersion myself 
Reality is people immediately use the word Immersion or Immersive when engaged with experiences like this. I heard it from a number of the audience directly and indirectly. The fact we are also playing live music from two countries at the same time does not take a major leap of brainpower to hear people talking about it in reference to Immersive Music or Music Immersion or directly compare to Grace's excellent interactive Musical storytelling project - MusImmersion, which - tada! - is directly derived from the two previous phrases which have a long history themselves!
It's just how the brain works...pattern recognition.
Which is in fact a key component of the "SynaesthAsia" project design...but that's another story.
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ticious
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 2070
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Music Immersion |
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| Lyndon wrote: | | Ko & Mo, you have, of course, heard of Grace McDunnough's Musimmersion, one of the top ten most influential shows in 07 right? |
Grace is a totally awesome musician whom I have not heard nearly enough of I'm afraid, but for who's art I have TREMENDOUS respect.
Ditto Komu though I have heard and seen more of him.
There's something we absolutely MUST keep in mind in SL music today...there's no way to track and disseminate information such as show titles which have been used and bests of stuff and so there is no reliable way to do a copyright or trademark search within the Second Life grid, therefore, there can be no ownership of show titles and no culprit when a name gets duplicated. And best of lists (or most influencial lists) have very little meaning and can only reflect those opinions of the people involved with their compilation.
As for confusion, the SL music scene is rife with it but it's the nature of a world where anyone who knows how to type can create a magazine, newspaper, blog or forum and publish their lists, polls and opinions. Before this post, I don't recall having heard of Grace's Musimmersion show (though I certainly wish I had seen it and hope to have a chance to in the future!!) and so there's no way I would have confused Komu's video with it. I also have never heard of the list you refer to, don't know where it was published, by whom, who was polled or who has seen the poll and agreed/disagreed with it. But I do know this...I have seen tons of such lists compiled and published in various sl and sl related media. There are scads of them out there and most of them don't even overlap on a few names, though each purports to be THE authoritative list of SL Music Best Whatever.
These issues simply have very little meaning in SL. Anytime I hear someone use the terms "First", "Historic", "Groundbreaking", "Most", "Premier", etc., I have to chuckle. It's kinda like Mankind referring to himself as SL's Premier Musician. He IS SL's Premier Musician in his music circle. There tons folks who equally qualify as SL's Premier Musician in tons of other circles and based on tons of other criteria.
Likewise, there's tons of 'best of' lists and tons of similar and duplicated names. If we get touchy about it at this stage, we'll miss the point. Which isn't a name, a list or a title, it's a concept. And Komu's version of Musimmersion is awesome as I'm sure Grace's is. So in short, maybe we need new ways to measure things without lists and perhaps new ways to identify things as 'belonging' to someone. I dunno. Or maybe we just need to let go of the idea of a title or concept in SL belonging to anyone. I just know it doesn't make any sense to worry much about it.
So lets just relax and enjoy the creativity.
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Komuso Tokugawa
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Music Immersion |
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Very good points Ticious.
| ticious wrote: | | And Komu's version of Musimmersion is awesome as I'm sure Grace's is. |
I thought I made it clear through all the above discussion., but let me make it crystal.
If anything in "SL" was the "inspiration" for "SynaesthAsia" slash "Music Immersion" slash whatever people wish to tag it while in beta [apart from the 6+ years of rl/sl incubation, hundreds of hours of experimentation, jamming, and performance in RL/SL] it was "The Ambipod" on the Isle of Svarga from Laukosargas Svarog http://gnarli.blogspot.com/2007/04/ambipod-of-svarga.html, which has been around a number of years and predates MusImmersion by quite a while.
In an early iteration I even emailed Lauk to see if she wished to collaborate, but I fear she has moved on to less laggy bug ridden environments as she never replied.
Grace's MusImmersion has, however, been a direct trigger for my other project - also in beta test, which was originally called BluesImmersion as a working title as a tip o' teh hat to Grace.
In any event the "project formerly known as BluesImmersion and as yet unnamed" is now significantly different from MusImmersion, as things should be in any creative development that is, in reality, the process of osmosis from MULTIPLE sources of ideas combined with originality.
That is the reality of the creative process.
Unless of course you work in the commercial sector of any industry where you just copy the product/service 100% and inflict it on the suffering public.
| ticious wrote: | Or maybe we just need to let go of the idea of a title or concept in SL belonging to anyone. I just know it doesn't make any sense to worry much about it.
So lets just relax and enjoy the creativity. |
I could not agree more.
Taken to extremes we can start berating people for calling their music rock n'roll or Blues or ? 
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