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luketemplar · Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 314 Location: United Kingdom

A recent new artist to my venue has been having trouble singing to a backing track - either his voice is inaudible (on SAM) or the music is inaudible (on Shoutcast). All he is using right now is Shoutcast streamed via his soundcard. I do not think he has an external mixer.

My question is - is a mixer a must have? If so would you recommend any brands? And how much would you expect this to cost? If it isn't - do you have any suggestions on any tricks he could use to tide him over until he could afford one.

Many thanks in advance.

Luke
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Doubledown Tandino · Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 1684 Location: Second Life

This is a common problem which for some reason can never seem to be totally solved.... as soon as we figure it out we gotta put it in FAQs

Here, I think is the answer on how to make it work in Shoutcast:
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=86076
although I've never tried it because I've never needed to.

Basically, the answer is NO, you do not need an external mixer.
What you need to do is edit the streaming program's settings so it broadcasts the sound card AND also broadcasts the music in the program (SAM or Winamp).

I'm sorry to say I've never needed to figure it out, but people have asked me this question alot, so I'd love to know the exact combo of settings to get music AND mic to work
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ticious · Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 2630 Location: Chicago

I don't know what the technical stuff is, but when we're doing gig support, one of the things we're doing is monitoring the levels and providing on the spot feedback. This is true whether the musician is singing to an instrument, like a guitar or piano, or singing to a backing track. And when I tell Eliz or Nad the track is too loud our their voice is too soft, they adjust it as they're performing.

So I know it can be done.
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RayW · Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 1145 Location: Twin Cities, MN

I think that the software mixer for the sound card should be good enough. I would suspect that the backing track is coming in on the WAVE input and the vocal is using either the MIC or the LINE inputs. Adjusting these should get the right balance.

Just my 2 cents. Smile

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casemunro · Joined: 09 Sep 2007 Posts: 141 Location: Pompano Beach, FL

To add to the discussion, I know from experience that native audio is crippled in Vista. I had to hack the registry so allow real time monitoring of the line in jack, and I can't stream that audio at the same time as any audio files on my computer. I have no option to record 'what you hear' the way I did using XP. I am looking to a soundcard upgrade next year to hopefully address this, but my workaround has been to run everything through a hardware mixer, which doesn't allow for a lot of spontaneity during the set. We use preprogrammed drums as a backing track, so I have to burn the tracks to a CD which pretty much locks down the song order.
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Distilled1 · Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 423 Location: Chicago

I have had this issue and with shoutcast that link is what you have to do but it has crap results it works well if you are DJing and use a crossfade dsp as well but to sing over the track it will be poo.

when I originaly started DJing live cast I wond up routing the wave out to speakers and into a cheap mixer and my mic into the mixer , main outs back to line in and set shoutcast to line in mixed levels on the hardware.

now I use both a alesis 8fx USD 129 new (non USB) and a E-mu still though I run the outs of the card back into the mixer and back in that way I have more control.

I have a artist trying now with a soundblaster and we cant get it to work at all either no music (track) or no voice cant seem to get both to work together and this is a musician that records with the set up.
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luketemplar · Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 314 Location: United Kingdom

I followed the instructions on that webpage with a lot of fiddling and finally found the stereo mix volume control on my computer - yet I'm back to square one again - a very soft voice volume despite it all being on max overwhelmed by the backing track. The artist was having this problem with SAM and I have problems with the voice volume on SAM too.
Thinking on a simpler level - how about blasting a CD in the background while u sing - anyone tried that? would the sound quality be acceptable?
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Distilled1 · Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 423 Location: Chicago

I think that doing a CD would be of poor quality as well the mix just isn't there.

I have figured it out a few times running shoutcast. but always went back to the outboard mixer set up I stated above.

There is another free caster simple cast I think that I believe may resolve the issue (if I could get an answer from the guy that got that to work over sam and shoutcast.

and if anyone gets a shoutcast working like this please let realmedia razor know in world. I am tired of pulling hair for 2-3 hours at a time trying to talk him through the set up with out seeing what he has going on.
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RayW · Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Posts: 1145 Location: Twin Cities, MN

Maybe this is related ...

I often notice that through the headphones, the guitar often sounds very loud compared to the vocal. So, I try to over-compensate by singing louder.

BUT, when I listen to the mp3 of the set (I record all sets I do), the vocal is way out front and the guitar is hardly there at all.

I think its a trick of monitoring. You just have to have the confidence that the vocal is out there, even though you don't hear it in the headphones.

I guess it's just an experience kind of thing.
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casemunro · Joined: 09 Sep 2007 Posts: 141 Location: Pompano Beach, FL